Couple That Pointed Guns At Protesters Charged With Felonies

| Educate!

Above photo: Laurie Skrivan/St. Louis Post-Dispatch via AP File.

Mark and Patricia McCloskey, the couple that drew national attention last month after footage of them pointing guns at Black Lives Matter protesters outside their home went viral, have been charged with felony unlawful use of a weapon, The Associated Press reported.

The charges come after investigation circuit attorney Kim Gardner launched a probe into the couple late last month over the June 28 incident.

At the time, the couple, who are white, were seen pointing guns at Black Lives Matter protesters that had been passing their home in a gated community while en route to the home of Mayor Lyda Krewson (D). The protesters had been demonstrating to call for Krewson’s resignation after she read aloud activists’ personal information on a livestream.

As they passed the McCloskeys’ home, however, the couple was seen in now-viral footage yelling and pointing guns at some of the protesters.

They later claimed in an interview with local CBS affiliate KMOV that they pulled out their guns in their own defense and that they were afraid for their lives.

“I was terrified that we’d be murdered within seconds. Our house would be burned down, our pets would be killed,” Mark McCloskey said in the interview.

One of the leaders of the demonstration, Rasheen Aldridge, disputed those claims, saying the protest had been peaceful despite the couple’s actions.

The case around the McCloskeys has only become more publicized as President Trump has come to the couple’s defense in recent weeks, claiming they “were going to be beat up badly if they were lucky.”

“They were going to be beat up badly, and the house was going to be totally ransacked and probably burned down like they tried to burn down churches,” he also said in an apparent reference to arson at a church near the White House.

Amid pressure from Trump and other Republican figures who have weighed in on the incident over the past few weeks, Missouri Gov. Mike Parson (R) has also come to the couple’s defense, suggesting he’d be willing to pardon the couple if they are met with charges.

In an interview this past week, Parson said the McCloskeys, who have a history of suing their neighbors and community members, “did what they legally should do” and added that they “had every right to protect themselves.”

When asked if he would consider pardoning the couple if they’re charged, he said that he thinks “that’s exactly what would happen.”

“Right now, that’s what I feel,” he said. “You don’t know until you hear all the facts. But right now, if this is all about going after them for doing a lawful act, then yeah, if that scenario ever happened, I don’t think they’re going to spend any time in jail.”

  • Edward Winslow

    Ah, yes. For these two gun nuts, it’s the shopworn “Fear of My Life Defense” that the occupation force has used for decades.

  • ANTONIO

    Different outcome for a Black couple if they did the same thing

  • Janet Zampieri

    I saw a photo of their front metal gate all knocked down and bent out of shape. I think I would be afraid of a mob of protesters if they were doing that sort of damage at my house.

  • chetdude

    Oh, really?

    Link please or at least the source so we can evaluate your “information”.

    Right-wing sources have a habit of lying on the internet.

  • Southern

    “I was terrified that we’d be murdered within seconds. Our house would be burned down, our pets would be killed,” Mark McCloskey

    Clearly the man has some serious issues or he’s lying [or both that’s also possible]

    It must be terrifying to be living in such a large house and not know what’s happening on the other side or god forbid black people walking past.

    In South Africa it’s common to retreat to safe rooms during home and farm invasions – considering the size of that apartment sized ”home” in a gated community I’d be surprised if it didn’t already have a safe room in place.

    Considering no harm has come to them they should at least invite everyone back into their home and offer a sincere apology /s

  • Southern

    They shouldn’t have trespassed

    However – Video shows gate was intact when St. Louis couple pointed guns at protesters….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDs835Lo9Y&t=7s

  • dmorista

    So you say you’re not a right-winger but where is your video clip from, well FoxNews naturally enough. And you state that “… I just know how mob mentality works and have seen BLM people destroying Black-owned properties.” Let’s get something straight. The U.S. ruling class has taken great efforts to make sure that every left-of-center organization in the U.S. is riddled with spies, informers, and agents provocateurs. This has been the case at least since the 1870s, so this is hardly something new. Just a few weeks ago, the web was alive with reports by various activists in major cities; who all noted that large numbers of cars and trucks, sporting out of state plates, always showed up as soon as protests there garnered any publicity. It was after all these outsiders showed up that arson and property damage began. Discrediting peaceful protests by the use of Agents Provocateurs is a standard U.S. ruling class procedure.

    There are plenty of videos of various uniformed and “black-clad” operatives, mostly Whites, breaking windows and causing other property damage. The U.S. ruling class is the most violent on Earth. They have long experience in phonying up incidents and blaming them on popular organizations and the left in general. They have murdered anywhere from 20 million (low estimate) to 100 million (high estimate) people on this planet directly with the Phoenix Program type operations. They are certainly operating here in the “homeland” as the Crisis of Capitalism (American and Western in general) deepens and involves the “sacred homeland”.

    So are we to believe that these McCloskeys, very up on local politics and events, did not know that the mayor lived in their “gated subdivision”, and that his house was undoubtedly the destination of the protest. What happened is that Mark McCloskey was just going to show those working class protesters that he has a big gun and could just shoot them if he wanted to, and also he could impress his loathsome wife in the bargain. By the next day he had hired several thugs, and they were photographed standing around on the porch. He and she are clearly brutish types who like to flaunt their wealth, but are dismayed because the common people no longer admire the rich like they used to in “the good old days”, and they have to hide behind security systems and thuggish guards.

  • “I am not a right winger”… but…

    Too funny

    Of course it is a left/right issue and you are representing the right. Own it. You might as well be a PROUD right winger!

  • Mensch59

    I’m not the kind of black & white thinker who would believe that all of the rioters are agents provocateurs. There really are plenty of mentally disturbed people who enjoy a mass non-violent protest turning into a riot. Yeah, the ruling class is depraved and degenerate and violent. But so are various agents within the lumpenproletariat who are devoid of any benign revolutionary potential.

  • dmorista

    True enough, I sometimes remember to write some qualifying language into comments of this sort. The main job of Agents Provocateurs is to convince the more gullible among the adherents of a movement to actually commit some act of violence or property damage. Leaders of protest movements know they have to guard against this. And yes there are elements among the population of the same class status as the protesters who are motivated to commit such acts as well. Many factors work into these situations.

  • dreamjoehill

    You’re no kind of thinker at all. You’ve veered far to the right, but you are unaware of what you have become.

  • Mensch59

    Yeah. Marx and Engels were right-wingers for writing about the lumpenproletariat having no revolutionary potential.

  • dreamjoehill

    Your portrayal of the McCloskeys is spot on. Anyone defending these scum outs themselves as rightist and supporters of right wing violence against protesters.

  • Good grief. A review of your posting history shows that every damn post is a defense of right wing politics.

  • dreamjoehill

    You accuse protesters of being lumpen w/o a shred of awareness of how classist and bigoted your accusation is.

  • Janet Zampieri

    I’ve been a progressive leftist all my life, but after seeing how most of the left has gone completely insane since Trump has been president, I have branched out a bit. I am a big fan of real progressives like Jimmy Dore and Aaron Mate and Caitlin Johnstone. I shouldn’t have to defend myself but that’s how it is now on left-leaning threads.

  • Janet Zampieri

    Don’t label me, and stop making everything being about left or right. The left-right divide is what is stopping us from going after the real enemy – the establishment.

  • Mensch59

    I don’t call rioters “protesters”. I’m not that stupid or naive.

  • You label yourself, lady.

    The obscuring of understanding that the right and left have opposing interests, as you do here, is in itself a right wing trope.

  • Yikes.

  • dreamjoehill

    Of course you take a stereotyped bourgeoisie attitude towards the riots.

    You “left wing libertarians” are all steeped in middle class morality.

  • Mensch59

    I’m pretty sure that murder, arson, conspiracy to commit theft have precisely nothing to do with bourgeois “morality”.
    Some behaviors are simply wrong — regardless of “analysis” based on class or ethnicity or sex.

  • Mensch59

    I have a measured attitude to both the protests and the riots.
    I’m not a fake “leftist” who has to have all of his dogmatic & ideological talking points lined up like ducks in a row.
    You don’t like it, because you seem to want all “leftists” to march lockstep like Nazis.

  • Mensch59

    That poster believes she is an authority about everything “right-wing”.
    She’s got the same type of illiberal mindset as any Rush Limbaugh follower/devotee — except it has to do with the idiotic trope “leftists good, right-wingers bad”, with she and her ilk having the power to dictate what’s left and right.
    I think it’s the depth of stupidity myself, in addition to being authoritarian nonsense.

  • Mensch59

    You see her “Yikes” reply. Nothing you write about respecting quite decent writers & speakers like Jimmy Dore and Aaron Mate and Caitlin Johnstone is good enough for her and her ilk.
    You need to be quoting from hardcore Marxists to impress the newbie.
    Find out the writers and speakers she approves of and quote from them.
    Then you’ll be in her good books.
    That and march in lockstep with all the approved dogmatic ideological talking points.
    That’s how to be a “real leftist” instead of a milquetoast “progressive leftist”.

  • GypsyFreyja

    Thanks for posting that Southern. I saw that video the day this happened but was never able to find it again to put up against the same comments as above. Thought it was “disappeared” lol. Anyone could have busted up that gate after the protesters were gone in an attempt to prove the protesters were hostile, violent and destructive. As you’ve said: Agent provocateurs.

  • dreamjoehill

    Fq you, your middle class morality and your asinine accusations!

  • dreamjoehill

    Murder? Who was murdered? Now you’re using hysteria to try to back up your moralism.

    But you had to add murder didn’t you? Otherwise it’d be crystal clear that you were in high dudgeon over crimes against property.

    Do you get worked up over graffiti too?

  • Collectivist

    Here’s something to brighten your day. I can’t stop😃:

    Mensch59
    an hour ago
    “. I think that you [Elizabeth Hayes] are a major figure (but unrecognized, sadly) in the intellectual field, a genius”

  • That is the funniest thing I have seen in a long time!!

  • Mensch59

    Thank you. Getting insulted by you and your tribe is confirmation that I’m on a better path than if I was getting ignored by you (plural) or if you (plural) were agreeing with me.

  • Mensch59

    You deny that there were people murdered by rioters?

  • dreamjoehill

    I don’t know of any. I would guess some rioters hurt other rioters fighting over the loot.

    Do you support the anti-police brutality protest movement?

  • dreamjoehill

    Don’t start what you can’t finish, crybaby.

    You likened me to a NAZI, so you deserve a little pushback, killer.

  • Southern

    You’re welcome – One way to find those missing links is to go back into your browser history – it should show if the page was opened in a new tab.

  • Collectivist

    Well said.

  • eight.of.wands

    hell, Jesse Jackson and Gloria Steinem early on had dealings with US intelligence agencies….talk about infiltration!….i wonder how much infiltrating Henry Kissing-her got to do when he dated the “feminist i-con”….and as for JJ, the 50 year investigation of Dr. William Pepper (what a truly great man) into the political murder of his close friend Dr. King will enlighten you as to who Jackson really is…

    basically, in a nutshell, everything we know and believe is wrong, because everything we’ve been told is a lie….maybe not the price of asparagus, obviously….but the bigger the story, the larger the event, the greater the societal import and impact, the faster and harder come the lies and coverup….when i finally realized and embraced this elemental understanding of the world we live in, it felt like escaping prison, or a cure for blindness….everything’s clear now and makes perfect sense, which in and of itself changes nothing but at least brings us the Peace to “soldier” on with a steadfast heart… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d96ee0b2553a006ffb1b35ed6a61f58f7002cde4b82c52d09f79ac371e64748d.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f3d91ddac9a974f3f3aea4c90c62a2b96b7a17cd991f958f4fe0adcfada37ef2.jpg

  • dmorista

    Infiltrating popular movements, compromising their leaders, and the like are very long-term projects by the ruling class. This goes way back before Capitalism or the U.S. I have not yet read Pepper’s books but have listened to several interviews with him. It was Jesse Jackson who set up the move in the motel to the front where the killers could get a better shot. He was also seen with a suitcase full of money. It is like an onion with layer after layer of scheming, intrigue, and betrayals of working people. But what choice do we have but to struggle against them as best we can??

  • JohnDoe00

    “Do you support the anti-police brutality protest movement?”

    No. He doesn’t. To Mensch, Hayes and the Diggers, these protests are merely DNC fronts for a far worse travesty: the forced wearing of masks. To the Diggers – that now includes Maxwell (the 2-bit sleaze merchant he is), Floyd (probably) got what he deserved. “Cultural Marxism” etc.

    But worse than that, from the comfort and safety of his rural Canadian home Mensch supports the beatings and kidnappings of these protestors by federal thugs and goons. Because you know, George Soros, the Plandemic and something about vaccinations, the elites and them wokesters…

    Hope that answers your question, Joe.

  • Mensch59

    And I thank you for the pushback and the insult, because I stand by my observation that you seem to want all “leftists” to march lockstep like Nazis.

  • JohnDoe00

    Like all lost souls looking only to belong, “veering” becomes as simple as the path of least resistance. Offering over-simplified, emotional answers to complicated questions, the right-wing is an easy choice for scum like Mensch.

  • JohnDoe00

    You’re a g’damn liar and fraud. Where do you stand Janet Progressive on working-class control of the commons and means of production? I’ll wait a thousand years for an answer and most likely never get one. Now please go fk yerself you lying shill. Call yourself anything you want – except a leftist!

  • Mensch59

    I don’t trust that there actually is (so-called) “anti-police brutality protest movement” anymore than I trust that an anti-war movement exists.
    It’s impossible to trust in a social phenomenon I don’t believe exists.

    To the Diggers – that now includes Maxwell (the 2-bit, former Marxist sleaze merchant he is), Floyd (probably) got what he deserved. “Cultural Marxism” etc.

    When our enemies have to lie about us — because your stupidity doesn’t allow you any other recourse — then we know that we’re on a correct path.

    How I replied to djh, but I included a link which caused the post to go into pending was:
    I believe that this (so-called) “movement” is a distraction.
    I agree with CJ Hopkins here from his most recent essay “GloboCap Über Alles”.

    … compare that period to the one we are in now. The parallels are overwhelming. The “state of emergency.” The propaganda. The mass hysteria. The mob mentality. The exaggeration of the actual threat. The police-state atmosphere. The suppression of dissent. The constant repetition of the new official narrative. The exhortative catchphrases and meaningless slogans. The confusion. The chaos. The existential fear. And so on. It is all so very familiar.

    I’m referring to the simulated pandemic, of course, but also to the racialized civil unrest and identitarian polarization that GloboCap has fomented throughout the United States, and, to varying degrees, the rest of the empire. I’ve been covering the War on Populism and GloboCap’s “Trump-is-literally-Hitler” propaganda since 2016, so the civil unrest isn’t terribly surprising. But, I confess, I did not see the fake plague coming. Running the two psy-ops together was brilliant. The effect on people has been devastating. Everyone is either depressed or enraged, or in some stage of paranoid paralysis. Some have been so thoroughly terrorized that they are literally refusing to leave their houses. Others are lining up at gun shops. White people are getting down on their knees and publicly washing Black people’s feet in “symbolic demonstrations of forgiveness.” Condiments are changing their names. It’s like we’re all trapped in a gratuitously didactic Netflix zombie-apocalypse series set in the world of The Handmaid’s Tale, written, directed, and produced by Spike Lee.

    The official propaganda could not be more Orwellian, nor could people’s willingness to go along with it.

    These two psychological warfare operations are a helluva lot more than wearing face diapers.

    But worse than that, from the comfort and (relative) safety of his rural Canadian home Mensch supports the beatings and kidnappings of these protestors by federal thugs and goons.

    Wrong. Again, it’s cool & groovy that you need to lie in order to dismiss my claim that rioters are not “protesters”. The prevailing narrative of (so-called) “real Marxists” could not be more Orwellian.

    You answering for me is, again, confirmation that I enjoy rent-free living in that empty head of yours. Thanks.
    🙂

  • Mensch59

    Having removed myself from the clique and the malignant ideology you belong to hardly means that I’ve become a “lost soul”.
    I’ll match my ability to deal with complicated questions and complex social issues against your ability any day, any time. I’m as confident in my intelligence as I am in your stupidity & cruelty.

  • Mensch59

    Do you support the anti-police brutality protest movement?

    I believe that this (so-called) “movement” is a distraction.
    I agree with CJ Hopkins here from his most recent essay “GloboCap Über Alles”.

    … compare that period to the one we are in now. The parallels are overwhelming. The “state of emergency.” The propaganda. The mass hysteria. The mob mentality. The exaggeration of the actual threat. The police-state atmosphere. The suppression of dissent. The constant repetition of the new official narrative. The exhortative catchphrases and meaningless slogans. The confusion. The chaos. The existential fear. And so on. It is all so very familiar.

    I’m referring to the simulated pandemic, of course, but also to the racialized civil unrest and identitarian polarization that GloboCap has fomented throughout the United States, and, to varying degrees, the rest of the empire. I’ve been covering the War on Populism and GloboCap’s “Trump-is-literally-Hitler” propaganda since 2016, so the civil unrest isn’t terribly surprising. But, I confess, I did not see the fake plague coming. Running the two psy-ops together was brilliant. The effect on people has been devastating. Everyone is either depressed or enraged, or in some stage of paranoid paralysis. Some have been so thoroughly terrorized that they are literally refusing to leave their houses. Others are lining up at gun shops. White people are getting down on their knees and publicly washing Black people’s feet in “symbolic demonstrations of forgiveness.” Condiments are changing their names. It’s like we’re all trapped in a gratuitously didactic Netflix zombie-apocalypse series set in the world of The Handmaid’s Tale, written, directed, and produced by Spike Lee.

    The official propaganda could not be more Orwellian, nor could people’s willingness to go along with it.

  • Mensch59

    I also trust that you are stupid because, in spite of your training and your self-image as a critical & analytical thinker, you don’t understand the abilities of the ruling class to conduct psychological warfare operations.

    You are so stupid that you call that understanding “right-wing”.

  • Collectivist

    What an arrogant, empty-headed gravedigger; digging deeper into his hole.

    https://mronline.org/2020/07/24/from-portland-to-the-world/

  • MrRedwoodGuy .

    If you want to see just how maniacal and power obsessed the man is, cruise through his endless, long-winded diatribes he directed at me over the last week or so. It is a stunning, crystal portrait of a deeply wounded human soul that can find no peace without “burying others” in his endlessly needy ego. I’ve rarely seen anything like it. It’s a refinement of the Trumpian personality that is more suitable to a man with an education (now wasted).

    He poses as the house intellectual to an echo-chamber of half a dozen conspiracy-obsessed people held in awe by vast gaseous clouds of his pseudo-intellectual, highly plastic idea bubbles, which can float uncritically over any situations, because they can be redefined on the fly as needed. Just count the number of “-isms” he invokes in a day to see the absurdly flexible nature of his authoritative claims.

  • eight.of.wands

    Bullseye, in the x-ring!

    speaking of which, in the photo heading this article, has anyone noticed that the reprehensible Mrs. Dumbo’s finger is within the trigger guard??….Firearms Training 101, the trigger finger must be held in a safe position outside the guard AT ALL TIMES, and ONLY enters the trigger guard in preparation to fire….her ‘finger pointing’ upped the charges filed against her….as well as raised a thousand fingers in response….”afraid for our safety, tremble tremble” is nowhere on this couple’s snorting faces…

  • JohnDoe00

    I know Red. I saw. But I’ve been watching his and Hayes work for years. And have taken more than a little heat from comrades for calling them on it from the git. But I hate to say, man: these are the proverbial fleas that bite when you lie down with them.

  • He poses as the house intellectual to an echo-chamber of half a dozen conspiracy-obsessed people held in awe by vast gaseous clouds of his pseudo-intellectual, highly plastic idea bubbles, which can float uncritically over any situations, because they can be redefined on the fly as needed. Just count the number of “-isms” he invokes in a day to see the absurdly flexible nature of his authoritative claims.

    Bingo – add to that the random obscure vocabulary tossed in for good measure and you have the guy in a nutshell.

  • MrRedwoodGuy .

    Esp. ancient references especially for simple terms. In order to brain’splain to me “calling a spade a spade” – he had to invoke an ancient book reference. It was a hoot.

  • MrRedwoodGuy .

    Yeah, I get your point. I don’t take offense at it.
    I never had a reason to denigrate EH. She has always been civil and polite to me. I don’t need to agree with everyone’s politics or ideas, I’m fine with diverse notions. It’s the raging, crude, boorish personalities I disrespect.

  • eight.of.wands

    “Ploys R Us”
    …from Mein Kampf to Machiavelli and well before the Trojans thought to fabricate a horse…

  • dreamjoehill

    OK, so clearly you don’t support the protest movement. No surprise there.

    The article you cite is blatantly rightist and racist. The author’s citing – with obvious disgust – white people washing black feet is a dead giveaway. It’s propaganda that panders to the most visceral type of prejudice.

    Like you the author pretends to be a rebel but opposes the first real rebellion to occur in the US in decades.

    And like you he throws in a little conspiracy paranoia, labellng the protest movement and the COVID pandemic “psyops,” without providing a shred of evidence.

    I read the entire article and it was truly disgusting propaganda designed to evoke a paranoid reaction.

  • dreamjoehill

    You base your statement that I want all leftists to march lockstep on my criticism of your posts; however, I don’t consider you a leftist; so your point is moot.

  • dreamjoehill

    I actually think Maxwell’s screen name was stolen. “Max’s” perspective spun almost 180 degrees and the writing style is inferior to the previous incarnation.

    Mensch has actually written support for the federal police state tactics?

  • dreamjoehill

    What convoluted self-serving bullshit.

  • JohnDoe00

    You seem like a good dude, Red. An “ideas “ fellow. I like ideas too. Divorced from politics, I can enjoy them for their own sake and merit. And even when they’re not – in years past, you had individuals like Wm Buckley who could argue from and for the right without needing to lie about his allegiances.

    This is a different time now. The new idea is simple: no longer should the left be debated head on. Rather, their claim to leftism should be stripped from them outright. No longer will the justification for capitalist economics be the centerpiece of struggle. Here online, suddenly everyone’s a “leftist.” And ideas quickly give way to accusations of Democrat affiliations. Look at what happened to Harbinger when he had the well measured audacity to parse the issues before him. Any attempt at reasonable debate was met with all the furor and hostility worthy of savage animals at work on a ham bone. Never mind economics, Red. Never mind capitalism. Mere ideas are now the enemy of Right-wingers who somewhere along the way made the decision they’d get a lot more traction by calling themselves the left.

    Lastly, don’t ever let EH’s “civility and politeness” fool you. Like Edgar Bergen moving the wooden lips of Charlie McCarthy, hers is the “…raging, crude, boorish personality” and voice behind Mensch and her team of right-wing psychopaths.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    The “protesters” broke down the gate to their property. I would have done the same thing. No one was hurt on either side.

  • Mensch59

    LOL.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    No violence was perpetrated. Perhaps the guns prevented that as the protesters had already broken down the gate to their property.

    The 2nd Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights for a reason, in spite of you anti-gunners’ hysteria.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    They broke down the gate. I would have been out there with my gun, too. No violence occurred, and maybe that was because the protesters understood the residents were armed.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    I fully support the right of the McCloskeys to defend their property after protesters broke down the gate to gain entrance. It’s called the 2nd Amendment.

    They had every right to protect their property and themselves. No one was hurt, and by brandishing their firearms, they probably prevented the protesters from destroying property, as they had done in other areas of the community.

    This case will never stand in a court of law, if it even gets that far.

  • Mensch59

    Whether or not I am “leftist” — according to all leftists expecting their in-group to march lockstep (like Hitlerites) to the leftist, dogmatic, rigid, ideological talking points — is moot. One can be a leftist and still dissent from leftist talking points, leftist orthodoxy, leftist orthopraxis. I have precisely nothing to prove to you about my political orientation.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    You will be mocked and/or smeared because you link to Fox News. To liberals, Fox never reports anything that’s true and accurate, while CNN and MSNBC never report anything that’s false or misleading.

    Thus the political polarization continues, just the way the ruling class likes it.

  • MrRedwoodGuy .

    Well said. My critique is largely that the Internet itself has been the primary tool of social deconstruction. That technocracy/technology has executed a coup on politics, and therefore the political framework is delivering dreadfully bad analysis to everyone. The politics failed to keep up with the power shift. In some ways it aided the power shift out of sheer ignorance (ex: Rubin/Clinton financial deregulation which led directly in a straight line to “FINTECH”).

    Add to that the destruction of the election machinery itself and you have quite a disaster. I shudder to think what will develop this November/December.

    And, nice to chat with you!

  • JohnDoe00

    “I actually think Maxwell’s screen name was stolen.” Lol. Max has never been a “writer.” He has always been a collator, collector – and plagiarizer of others. By his willful submersion into a vat of conspiracy theory and blatant indifference to the many, many issues currently confronting the working-class, Max has relinquished any and all claims to Marxism and leftism as it’s been historically understood. He’s a fking enemy!

    “Mensch has actually written support for the federal police state tactics?”
    I trust you can click on his screen name and read for yourself, Joe.

  • Mensch59

    LOL. I’m sure that CJ Hopkins would pay a helluva lot attention to the likes of you calling his essay “rightist and racist propaganda”.
    You’re a real hoot.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    I’d say it’s far more likely that CIA infiltration took the form of protest plants agitating for violence than influencing the McCloskeys to brandish their firearms. In fact, it is the former that contributed to the latter.

  • dreamjoehill

    test

  • Janet Zampieri

    Lovely response; good thing you’re John Doe.

  • Mensch59

    I’m quite enjoying the gossip.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Be careful, Janet. Anyone who steps out of the rigid “leftist” box proscribed by these self-righteous, binary-thinking ideologues will be slandered and smeared.

    The cabal with whom you are interacting believe they’re the sole arbiters of who’s “left” and who’s “right.” And they don’t have much of a sense of nuance, either. In reality, they are just doing the work of the MSM, CIA, and the ruling class.

  • Mensch59

    Whereas you cannot even be bothered to respond to a review of a post you requested that I respond to.
    The latest “obscure vocabulary” was a quote from a pretty cool link imo, i.e. “orthopraxy”.

  • Mensch59

    I’m so glad to live rent free in your head that you have taken to gossiping about me OffDigger. Yippee.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    JohnDoe00 may be the crudest, most intolerant, and most misogynistic of a gang of faux leftists who specialize in crudeness, intolerance, and misogyny. Once you challenge their bullsh*t, you will be on their hit list forever.

    Wait for one of them to impersonate you online, and post comments that portray you as a right-winger. The other thing they specialize in is setting up numerous fake disqus accounts to down-vote whatever you post en masse. They are truly a despicable gang.

    “By their deeds ye shall know them.”

  • dreamjoehill

    I really could give a damn what Hopkins thinks. He turned tail and ran, leaving the country when Trump was elected.

    He is a cowardly fraud posing as a leftist. No wonder you like him.

  • dreamjoehill

    You are actually posting rightist talking points and advocating rightist positions. Of that there is no doubt.

  • dreamjoehill

    Who said I was an “antigunner?”

    And GFY for wantonly labeling my comment hysteria.

    I’ve been seeing your comments for quite some time. You’re obviously nuts, crazy, as in mentally ill. You accusing others of hysteria is very amusing, nutter.

  • dmorista

    I need to look my post over, I certainly meant to state what you wrote, not that the CIA was agitating for the McCloskeys to threaten or fire away at the BLM protesters.

  • dreamjoehill

    Hey Dave, I posted a video of a young Gloria Steinem discussing her time as a CIA operative, but it’s pending.
    discussec sTe
    There is no doubt that Steinem was with the CIA from 1958 to 1952. She has admitted it. Zbignew Brzezinski publicly recounted his time working with her and her front group. Tom Hayden Steinem’s attempt to recruit him, as did Michael Harrington;

    If you go to youtube and search “Steinem CIA”, her televised interview with Mike Wallace in 1967 is there. It’s part of an interesting expose on the CIA that Wallace led.

  • dreamjoehill

    BTW, your response is truly moronic. You posted a link to an article and I critiqued it. Then you post an elitist comment about how the author wouldn’t care about criticism “from the likes” of me.

    I wasn’t responding to the author. I was responding to you.

  • dmorista

    I will believe that line of crap when somebody produces video of the protesters actually breaking down the gate. I look forward to the day when creeps like the McCloskeys flee their mansions, to board their yachts to sail away to the Caribbean to hide out, and find to their dismay that the step-n’-fetch-its at the boat yard have turned on them as well. As long as monsters, like the McCloskeys can sleep without worry in their beds we can be sure the working class is taking it up the a**!!

  • Mensch59

    You were responding to me about the author.

  • Mensch59

    …hers is the “…raging, crude, boorish personality” and voice behind Mensch and her team of right-wing psychopaths.

    LOL. Sounds like you have an obsession.

  • chetdude

    Not proof of anything — right-wing sources have been busted hundreds of times for posting a picture that was a lie.

  • dmorista

    What a hackneyed and inaccurate comment. Yes indeed Fox News is, in fact, not a news operation; it is a propaganda and disinformation organ for the most extreme right-wing faction of the U.S. ruling class. CNN and MSNBC merely represent, the propaganda and disinformation arms of somewhat less right-wing factions. Only in the U.S. could the public positions of CNN and/or MSNBC be labeled as “liberal”. Anywhere else they would be regarded as being center right to far right (except maybe in Brazil, but that society is an even more extreme version of the U.S.).

    If a poor person defends his or her home from intruders (such as police thugs from one of the 80,000 SWAT raids conducted each years, overwhelminlgy of course in poor neighborhoods), the McCloskeys need never worry about a bunch of masked “thugs in blue” breaking into their house without warning, killing their dogs, terrorizing their children, and robbing their house. We will know we are making significant progress when people like the McCloskeys cannot sleep soundly at night.

  • Mensch59

    Hopkins has more intelligence than you do — intellectually and emotionally and ethically.
    I do too.

  • Mensch59

    In this “woke identity politics” culture, it will probably be taken as a racist slur to refer to calling a spade “a spade”. It will then become necessary to inform the “woke” critic that the idiom had its origin with Plutarch. But then the “woke” critic will then call Plutarch a racist.

  • Nylene13

    chetude -are you OK? Preparing for the hurricane?

    We have been having lots of Thunderstorms here in Nevada. Bringing Lots of Wildfires.

    We had some rain-in our area-it was so Wonderful!
    My garden Exploded after the storm.

    I just climbed out of of my cattle trough swimming pool, and then picked red tomatoes and basil and zucchini and bell peppers-going to make a soup for dinner.

    Can you grow winter squash in Hawaii?

    Stay safe.

  • dreamjoehill

    LOL. What a childish comment.

  • Mensch59

    Whatever you say. You are probably an expert on childishness.

  • dreamjoehill

    Expert? You seem hung up on intellectual authority.

    That’s on you.

  • Mensch59

    Whatever you say. You are probably an intellectual authority on hang-ups too.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Ad hominem is always the fallback for those who have no real argument or defense.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    But not a different outcome for NFAC, a black militia that showed up fully armed for a recent protest. I would post a link to an article about NFAC, but this website apparently does to allow that.

    However, if you search for NFAC, you will see for yourself. The 2nd Amendment “shall not be infringed,” and it applies across the political spectrum, to all citizens!

  • dreamjoehill

    Cry me a river.

    Don’t start what you can’t finish, crybaby.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    I think I finished it. You’ve got nothing.

    You would deny the McCloskeys their 2nd Amendment rights, but what about the black militia, Not F*cking Around Coalition (NFAC), which recently marched in a protest in Kentucky fully armed? Are they “gun nuts,” too?

    I would post a link to the article, but this website apparently won’t allow that. You can search it for yourself.

    The “right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” That applies to white and black, left and right, liberal and conservative. I stand for the Bill of Rights. You apparently stand for authoritarianism and propaganda.

  • dreamjoehill

    LOL.

  • dreamjoehill

    You keep using the term “gun nuts” not me.

    You’re the one defending a couple of scumbag lawyers who should’ve just stayed in their house with their guns.

    Running outside to point guns at people was indefensible stupid act performed by wealthy and privileged but ultimately ugly Americans.

    “You apparently stand for authoritarianism and propaganda.”

    You apparently have sht4brains.

  • JohnDoe00

    You apparently stand with a copy of the 2nd amendment glued to your asshole you right-wing fking mole. For months and years you’ve been up in here tooting your anti-Demisms all across these pages. Come to find out, like a few others, all this blather of yours is mere cover for your blatant patriotic, gun-toting fascism. Fking fraud. No doubt you’re cheering on Trump’s use of goon squads for riot control. I give two shts about gun issues but I despise right-wingers trying to get lost in the crowd.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    I don’t waste my time on self-righteous losers like you.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Still with the ad hominem. Doesn’t make you look very cogent, sport.

    The “scumbag lawyers” brandished firearms when a gang of protestors broke down the gate to their property. No one was injured, and, at least in this instance, nobody’s property (other than the gate) was damaged. I’d say that was a prudent use of their 2nd Amendment rights. The AG is grandstanding, and her indictment will be thrown out before it ever reaches a court of law.

    The black militia, No F*cking Around Coalition, carried firearms in public, brandishing them at a protest in Kentucky for the purpose of self-defense. Some might say they were less justified in “packing” than the McCloskeys, but I stand behind both the “scumbag lawyers” and the black militia (I believe all blacks should be armed in this country, as well as all women).

    Ain’t the Bill of Rights grand? Both scumbags and black militiamen get to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights!

  • CoCoLuv9491

    LOL. You have absolutely no idea how unhinged you sound.

  • Mensch59

    Mensch has actually written support for the federal police state tactics?

    No, I have not.
    But I don’t mind all that much when a liar behind the Disqus account @disqus_WRqEQE9zpb:disqus is compelled to misrepresent my commenting history in order to score some rhetorical point on social media.
    Liars gotta lie, haters gotta hate, sadists have to be cruel.
    That’s life.
    It only goes to show that people don’t need political power in order to corrupt themselves.

  • Mensch59

    I don’t accept the authority of anyone to dictate what are or are not “rightist talking points” and “advocacy of rightist positions”.
    “You are actually…” and “Of that there is no doubt” indicates an illiberal and pseudo-skeptical mindset.

    I’d rather engage with “right-wingers” and see where they are “wrong” — according to my cognitive biases and according to how I succumb to self-deception — than reject everything which doesn’t accord with my beliefs and ideas as “rightist talking points” and “advocacy of rightist positions”.

    “Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.”

    The right-left divide (1) has been perfectly exploited by the ruling class to keep the underclasses politically divided according to the tried & true “divide and conquer” strategy (2) is mostly about identity politics (aka identitarian politics) more than it is about substance.

  • Mensch59

    The dude is malignant.

  • Collectivist

    “I believe all blacks should be armed in this country, as well as all women”

  • It is property rights that always predominate over human life with you right wingers.

    You “believe” everyone should be armed. That would make the circular firing squad a lot more efficient.

  • JohnDoe00

    I know exactly how I sound to you, punk.

  • JohnDoe00

    The problem here though is this is no more than cosmetic lip-service that rhetorically enables everything else this libertarian “believes.”

  • Collectivist

    That’s true.

    It gives him cover when things get out of control in the gravedigger klavern . . .St. Jimmy gets stoned, points his pee shooter at him and cocolovely has to shoot him. . .

    “Reactionaries have rights too!”

  • dmorista

    Yeah, but let’s get real. The McCloskeys in their mansion, and with their gaggle of hired thugs who showed up the next day (and no doubt some high level legal talent at their disposal), they have to be pretty indiscreet to encounter any problems resulting from brandishing weapons. And the various thugs who have shown up at protests, or who have marched around various state capitals, carrying their assault rifles they do so with impunity. In fact ALEC, the Koch Brothers supported far-right wing organization that writes much of the legislation that is introduced in state legislatures, pushed all this open carry BS. What this brandishing of weapons really is, is a sign of the terminal decline of the U.S.

    Of course this is hardly surprising. A hollowed out shadow of its former self, the U.S. is clearly on the way out. Unable to provide decent housing, education, medical care, or public transportation for much of the domestic society, the U.S. ruling class still maintains 1,000 overseas military bases, a large lavishly equipped military; and now has police forces that arrive at peaceful protests, looking like something out of Star Wars. And let’s make no mistake, the Constitution very clearly states the right of the people to peacefully assemble to demand redress of grievances. The 2nd Amendment’s language is much murkier, involving the role of a militia and not guaranteeing the right of creeps, like the McCloskeys, to brandish automatic weapons at protesters passing by their lavish house. The current day U.S. is a gigantic hollow brittle shell of power, run by a bunch of swindlers and war criminals; this has happened many times in history, always with the same result.

    If various elements of the left, and the African-American protesters, were regularly marching around with assault rifles, just what do you think would happen to them?? In the 1960s the Black Panthers appeared one time at the California Legislature carrying weapons, with 5 years they had been largely killed off in one police attack after another. Do you think the McCloskeys are in danger of being killed in a SWAT raid?? Over 80,000 SWAT raids are carried out in the U.S. each year (up from 500 in the 1980s); and just who do these raids generally target. Not people like the McCloskeys that is for sure.

  • Mensch59

    What all this brandishing of weapons really is, is a sign of the terminal decline of the U.S.

    Plenty of people still hold onto the hopium/delusion that the USA can be fixed.

  • Janet portrays herself as a right winger so there is no need to pretend otherwise.

    Yep – “by their deeds ye shall know them” – the right wingers pretending to be “the left”.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Any attempt at reasonable debate was met with all the furor and hostility worthy of savage animals at work on a ham bone.

    Your hypocrisy is astounding. Every time I attempt to reasonably debate outside of The Digger, you and your gang attack me personally en masse “with all the furor and hostility worthy of savage animals at work on a ham bone,” and either you didn’t notice or are lying about it, but I told posters to stop attacking him and attempted to debate him reasonably. I posted

    People are well within their rights to argue points without suspicions about personal motivations. Please don’t take offense. Just saying. Keep it to ideas not personalities.

    And

    I don’t think Harbinger’s arguments hold water. Let them be stated here, though, lest this joint falls into groupthink. We’ve heard them all before. S/he probably believes them.
    Seriously, Mensch, what are you expecting me to do? Ban her/him because of suspicions of ill intent? Anyone’s allowed to state their opinions as long as they’re civil.

    Which is much more respect than I’ve ever gotten from your little gang of mofos. The guy (if he is a guy) couldn’t take it and withdrew. Most likely it was TA with a different nym: a liar, a coward, and a Demotool, but I put that aside. As he demonstrated, he’s a coward when he doesn’t have backup from your gang.

  • Mensch59

    Look at what happened to Harbinger when he had the well measured audacity to parse the issues before him. Any attempt at reasonable debate was met with all the furor and hostility worthy of savage animals at work on a ham bone. Never mind economics, Red. Never mind capitalism.

    Harbinger/(TA?) wasn’t discussing ideas about economics and capitalism in “reasonable debate”. He was straw-manning ideas as “right-wing”, as if that’s any sort of an argument or counterargument whatsoever. It’s really only an argument from authority, i.e. what I label as “right-wing” (as with “reactionary” or “conspiracy theoretical”) goes, and a “my way or the highway” approach to reason.

    True, he was civil and polite, but underneath was a craven personality which couldn’t stand the heat and s/he discarded his/her comment history.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Maxwell has evolved… something about which you have no idea.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Standing for authoritarianism and propaganda seems to be prominent earmarks of “the left” as these nutjobs define it.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    More either/or thinking from the faux leftist crowd. Both property rights and human life need to be protected. Firearms are an effective (but not guaranteed) way of deterring violence to life and/or property.

    I guess you have’t noticed that the police don’t f*ck with armed protestors. But those “peaceful protestors” (unarmed) get their heads bashed in on a routine basis.

    When people are armed, they are in a position to protect themselves. If you want to be vulnerable and undefended, that is your choice. Maybe in your gated community, you don’t have to worry about your security… until you do. The Constitution gives me the right to keep and bear arms, which I do.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    So, we agree then, at least on this?

  • CoCoLuv9491

    LOL. Now you and your poison pill pal are making up fairytales again.

  • dreamjoehill

    Actually, species evolve, not individuals, you ignorant psycho.

  • dreamjoehill

    You don’t accept the authority of reason and evidence either, nutter.

    Your tired rightist talking points are boring.

  • dreamjoehill

    The gate wasn’t to their personal property. It was to their “gated community”, ie their bourgeoisie compound.

    The scumbag lawyers, who you so ardently defend, were pointing their guns at people. That’s what’s going to bring them down in court.

    I see you support universal gun rights, but I don’t think they let the mentally ill have guns so you’re SOL, killer.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    So, you missed it when the “Not F*cking Around Coalition,” a black militia, protested fully armed in Kentucky recently.

    I support the rights of both the McCloskeys and the NFAC to keep and bear arms for their personal protection, and to defend their property.

    Since you’re not a fan of the Bill of Rights, and the 2nd Amendment in particular, you should start a movement to repeal it. But you might get pushback from the 145,000,000 gun owners in the country.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    The McCloskeys did not brandish “automatic weapons.” Since you know so little about guns and gun laws, you don’t realize that the AR-15 rifle Mr. McCloskey brandished was a semi-automatic weapon. Automatic weapons are banned in this country.

    If enough blacks were armed and organized in this country, the police wouldn’t f*ck with them. The Black Panthers were pioneers in regard to being armed for self-defense, but they were too few in numbers to stand up to the federal authorities.

  • Mensch59

    You don’t accept the authority of reason and evidence…

    Project much? Your argumentum ad hominem and self serving bias (implying that you are more rational and evidence-based than myself) are “boring”.

  • Collectivist

    Actually, I see it as a possible made-for-tv (melo) drama.

  • Collectivist

    We perhaps agree on the right to self defense.

    We STILL DON’T agree on:

    – the seriousness of the bio-social crisis we currently face
    – the centrality of white nationalism (& patriarchy) to class struggle
    – The Digger, as anything other than a cyberspatial klavern of social and political deplorability and Alex Jones-type conspiracy theories

  • Jay Hansen

    I call bullshit.

  • dreamjoehill

    Too dumb to come up with your own insults. You try to copy mine, but you don’t have the it.

  • Jay Hansen

    Oh yes you are.

  • I am far more worried about armed fascists than I am about peaceful protesters.

    When you encounter someone who has a gun, the one thing you know about them is that they have a lethal weapon and have presumably thought about using it. Nothing beyond that. You don’t know if they have had any training, or experience. You don’t know what they think. You ONLY now that they possess a lethal weapon and therefore are far more dangerous to EVERYONE than someone who is unarmed.

  • dreamjoehill

    You’re a real Einstein, aye?

    I responded to an “argument” that you presented from an author.

    That doesn’t imply that I care what the author might think of me. Once again, your response is puerile.

  • Mensch59

    I’m kinda surprised that @disqus_D0gqaX8WRE:disqus pals around online with the niggardly- and black-hearted @disqus_WRqEQE9zpb:disqus, with his rigid & dogmatic ideology and his illiberal & holier-than-thou mindset.
    I thought Collectivist was a better man than to have JohnDoe00 as an online chum.
    I thought wrong.

  • Mensch59

    You would do well on Twitter. Your two sentence Disqus posts would be perfect there. Bigger audience too.

  • Mensch59

    Oh no I’m not.
    (Isn’t this FUN?!)

  • Mensch59

    BS. You smeared the author. I guess with you there is no difference between smearing someone and arguing with her/him.

  • JohnDoe00

    Which brings me to another of your “tells.” The longer your response time, the likelihood of an honest reply from you drops precipitously. That, coupled with your preferences to interjections between posters rather than addressing specifics offered directly to you makes you as dishonest as they come, Hayes. I highly doubt you learned that in grad school.

    Every time I attempt to reasonably debate…
    Lololololololol… Full stop. You never attempt a reasonable debate. So you may stick that little lie right up your ass. Too funny…

    …you and your gang…
    Another lie. One you never tire of. I am a lone wolf, cvnt, bound to ideas and political principles – not cliques and clubs. Not seconds after your post here, your private buttsnuffler shows up with his usual stupidity and a gratuitous up-vote. Fking liar.

    I told posters to stop attacking him…

    How very big of you. You “told others…“ lol. Like Trump’s army, they got your winky-wink disclaimers, cvnt. Loud and clear. “Good people on all sides…” lol. Stick all that up your ass too. “Less this falls into groupthink…” lolololololol… Like with Covid? Race? Vaccinations? AGW? Like anyone attempting to challenge your editorial non-challenge to capital? Like with anyone that calls you out for your litany of gaslighting horsesht?

    Which is much more respect than I’ve ever gotten…

    Good one. The respect you’ve received from me is commiserate with what you’ve given. This is really bad, Hayes. “…liar, coward, Demotool…” Ahhh, “respect.” Lolololol. Cvnt.

  • Jay Hansen

    No. Yes you are.

  • dreamjoehill

    In my first response to your posting his article, I didn’t “smear” the author. I attacked his writing. There is a difference, but you too dumb to see it.

    After you mad an irrelevant but asinine statement implying that the author wouldn’t care that I found his writing to be racist rightist propaganda.

    At that point I called the author a coward for running away when T-rump was elected.

    None of that qualifies as a smear, dopey.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    You are your own worst enemy. Every time you respond this way, you show everyone reading what a nasty little twerp you are, and along the way, what like-minded losers those who upvote you are as well. So thanks.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    You are bullsht.

  • dreamjoehill

    niggardly? WTF?

  • dreamjoehill

    The right wing gunners stand for authoritarianism.

    Your drift to the right continues. Your trip will be complete when you advocate voting for Trump to show those uppity leftists.

  • Jay Hansen

    Let Roy Rogers ride you into the sunset, Ma’am.

  • JohnDoe00

    Wrong. My personality – and even that old, wretched thing you’ve been cursed with lugging around for all your days is a distant second to the fashion we’ve been forced to live as a people and society. Always the professor, ain’t you Hayes? Always attempting to assist with even your own admonishment. And this, even what, 5-6 years removed from your own (alleged) leap off the Lorrain-Carnegie bridge? My own worst enemy. Yeah, ok.

  • JohnDoe00

    I support your right to stick that BIG gun of yours right up yet azz, 🤡.

  • Mensch59

    “The word niggardly has no connection with the highly offensive term nigger, but because of the similarity of sound and its negative meaning of ‘mean, ungenerous’ many people are uncomfortable with using it for fear of causing offence, and in the US it is now widely avoided.” ~ www dot lexico dot com/definition/niggardly

  • Mensch59

    Your an effin’ liar. You play games as if wring that a guy’s essay being “rightist and racist propaganda” isn’t smearing the author. Play your games with someone else.
    You are temporarily blocked.
    I’ll unblock you in a few days so I don’t have to read your niggardly replies from your black-hearted mind.
    “Black-hearted” (def) disposed to doing or wishing evil; malevolent; malicious.
    “Niggardly” (def) ungenerous with money, time, etc.; mean.

  • Mensch59

    For me it’s fun. for you, it’s insane*.
    No I’m not.
    * “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.” ― Narcotics Anonymous

  • Jay Hansen

    Twelve steppin’ are we? Ya sure are.

  • Mensch59

    No. You are, philo-the-insane-troll.

  • Mensch59

    Regarding “various elements of the left”: considering the massive amount of censorship which goes on the the WSWS and what an echo chamber it’s become and how the WSWS is supposedly a bastion of leftism, I’d also say that — in addition to the USA — the Amerikan left is also a “hollowed out shadow of its former self”.
    The behavior of the censors over at the WSWS is more disgusting than anything which people like the McCloskeys do.
    I think it’s the Amerikan left which needs to take care of its own massive problems before pointing fingers.

  • dreamjoehill

    “s if wring that a guy’s essay being “rightist and racist propaganda” isn’t smearing the author.”

    I attacked his writing for what I think it is. A smear would be “Hopkins fqs chickens” ie a totally unrelated and unproven accusation.

    I think Hopkins essay was rightist and racist. How else can I say it?

    Block away, blockhead. I don’t want to hear you’ve had a stroke.

  • Jay Hansen

    Never played the doubles much, I see.

  • dreamjoehill

    So how was John Doe “ungenerous?”

  • Jay Hansen

    Being called insane by a lunatic hurts like a caress.

  • Mensch59

    Dealing with trolls like you is all in a days fun. You’ve got nothing. Just ad hominems — like a typical fake “leftist” with his/her rigid, dogmatic, ideological talking-points lined up in a way which only Goebbels could be proud of.
    Buh-bye.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Even more ad hominem?! With each post, your desperation becomes more apparent.

  • Mensch59

    How poetic! Go onto the Cowboy’s Poetry circuit. You’ll knock ’em dead.

  • Mensch59

    The dude is almost as malignant as JohnDoe00.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Oh my, are we “triggered”… again?

  • dreamjoehill

    Just calling it like I see it. You are so clearly mentally ill.

  • dmorista

    Yeah yeah, I am fully aware that the assault rifles that most of the White reactionaries parade around with are semi-automatic, but at least used to be easily modified to fully automatic, so stuff that particular insult where the sun does not shine. In civilized countries, a category of which the U.S. was never completely a part of and is clearly losing any pretense to being one, people don’t walk around carrying various types of weapons. Places where people don’t go around openly with guns, (that used to be the case here before the reactionary takeover and the big build up of armed right-wingers) are safer, have better social statistics, and have much lower murder and suicide rates other things being equal. Yes, in places like Germany, Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, the Netherlands, and even New Zealand and Australia the rate at which the police kill people is anywhere form 1/10th to 1/200th the rate we see here. People are not saints there, they stab each other and beat each other with clubs, and poison each other, but your run-of-the-mill psychopath does not have some kind of high-powered gun easily available to them.

    The U.S. is a degenerate declining empire, ruled by war criminals and swindlers, and it increasingly shows the unpleasant aspects of that reality. The horrific crimes the ruling class promotes, and the working class men and women go commit, only add to our already serious problems with a frayed social order. All this BS about the 2nd amendment is just a cover. The ruling class is considering whether they will make some urgently needed concessions to the population, or whether they will try to bring on a civil war. In such a war all you deluded gun-nuts will play some big role. And when it is all over and some significant proportion of the populace has been murdered, raped, and otherwise harmed nobody will have won and nobody will be able to remember what it was all about.

    BTW Australia had a similar history of “frontier life” and all that pro-gun ideology. But after a horrific mass shooting in Tasmania (that would be just a once a year sort of event here) they got serious; and people had to give up their guns. It took over 15 years to implement but they did it. Were they all carried off and murdered afterwards, did the police break into everybody’s homes, did Australia become a dictatorship, NO! NO! NO! But then Australia does not maintain a gigantic military, intervene all over the world constantly, or 1,000 foreign military bases either.

  • Mensch59

    The wokesters abyss-deep in identity politics can’t hold a candle to JohnDoe00 and his ilk for malignancy.

  • dreamjoehill

    Interesting how you don’t address my argument. You just name call.

    Who’s the troll? You.

    Who’s the fake leftist? You.

    But you got “smeared” over at wsws. The y tore your pathetic “argument” to shreds and all you could do is feebly claim you were just being skeptical. Better stick to your cultish COVID denial sites. You can’t handle the real world.

    This is the 3rd time you’ve claimed you’ve banned me. Pathetic.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    You’re as uninformed and close-minded about gun owners as any right-wing Trump supporter is about African/Americans.

    Maybe take some time, and talk to some gun owners before you spout off ridiculous, borderline hysterical generalizations. The gun owners I know are all well trained on their weapons. Gun owners are only dangerous to folks who would be dangerous to them.

    No one buys a gun in the hopes that they will have to use it, except for maybe criminals. Just like most people hope they don’t have to use their fire extinguisher. But if they ever do have to use it, they’re damn glad they got it.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    It will never get to court. It’s a ridiculous charge.

    You really should take a mental health day for yourself. You’re beginning to sound as unhinged as your new-found mentor, JohnDoe. That’s not good.

  • Mensch59

    Answering that query would require an essay.

  • dreamjoehill

    Then don’t make accusations that you can’t back up.

  • dreamjoehill

    “It will never get to court. It’s a ridiculous charge.”

    Did the voices in your head tell you that?

  • Mensch59

    You don’t make arguments, liar. You smear.
    Learn to read. I got censored over at that crappy echo chamber for fake “leftists”, the WSWS.
    Learn to read x2. To “block” someone is not to “ban” him/her.
    And I’ll block you when I’m good and ready.

  • Jay Hansen

    Um, I’m not very welcome in cowboy circles, but thanx anyhoo.

  • dmorista

    So let me ask you, have you ever been to a place where massive civil violence, civil war, or some similar catastrophe is occurring or has occurred recently. I spent considerable time in Guatamala and Colombia and some in El Salvador. The scars from those horrific events were pretty obvious. I hope that the U.S. can avert a horrific civil war and that the 145,000,000 gun owners can keep their guns at home. We face the most heavily armed ruling class in the world, who have 70,000 commandos that they will freely use to kill us if it comes to it. And some proportion of the 145,000,000 would eagerly use their guns to even up some scores and grudges.

    And cram it up your a** when you say I am not a fan of the “Bill of Rights”. You, and all the gun nuts, are like the Christian Right and their supposed biblical condemnation of gay people. There are over 7,000 references in the bible to caring for the poor, and just one mention of homosexuality; but what do those Christian Rightists always talk about? The second amendment is clearly written to allow some part of the populace keep arms to serve in the militia. It was not written to permit psychopaths easy access to high-powered weapons. Far more important to our freedom are the 1st and 4th amendments. Citizens of Japan and Taiwan cannot carry guns around, while inhabitants of Afghanistan and Iraq almost all own AK-47s. Who has more freedom and a better life?? There is a whole lot more that goes into the components of civilized life than carrying a gun around. That this has become such a big issue here clearly demonstrates just how precarious and debased life has become in this country.

  • Jay Hansen

    Hector the projector sphincts again. Say, yo mama so fat when she sit around the house she sit AROUND the house.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    With newestbeginnings and Collectivist in his group, he’s one of the Wokesters. They’re big on witch-hunting and cultish religiosity. Poor Johnnie is upset cause his idol didn’t get sufficient reverence.

  • dmorista

    I hope we can engineer a “soft landing” to the end of the Empire. But the longer the ruling class here keeps doubling down on it the less likely a soft landing is.

  • Jay Hansen

    The boob respects the rights of the booboisie. That’s our little KuKluxLuv1492.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    You only display how much you project when you attack people you don’t know for exercising their Constitutional right to self-defense.

    How do you feel about the militia of armed black men that marched in public in Kentucky? Do you think anyone there might have felt intimidated by the Not F*cking Around Coalition? I support their right to keep and bear arms every bit as much as I support the McCloskeys. The 2nd Amendment doesn’t choose political sides.

    Vitriol has made the “left” as reactionary and illiberal as the “right.”

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Actually it is those who would deny anyone, besides a criminal and the mentally unstable, their 2nd Amendment rights who are authoritarian.

    The left is just as full of authoritarians as the right, maybe more so, if current events are any indication.

  • dreamjoehill

    I just read several of your comments at wsws today. They weren’t centered.

    I didn’t smear. I called Hopkins rhetoric, particularly his outrage over foot washing, rightist and racist. How is that a smear?

    YOu can’t get anything right.

  • JohnDoe00

    Uh-huh.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Well, I challenge your first two assertions, but certainly agree on your third.

  • dmorista

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

    There is absolutely no reference to self-defense in there. In fact, cloaked in the usual “enlightenment” style prose, the real purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to maintain a militia that the various elites of the new country could use to suppress workers, poor farmers, and slaves.

    Of course there has been a large amount of litigation around the 2nd Amendment, and it has been argued every way possible. One central fact remains, unique among the developed countries the U.S. has east widespread availability of guns, and concomitantly has astronomically higher levels of gun deaths, the biggest single number being suicides.

  • Mensch59

    You and I have briefly discussed the end of the USD/petro-dollar as the world’s reserve currency and the great economic transition which Andrew Yang calls “the greatest in the economic history of mankind” (or something to that effect) and the economic reset talked about by the World Economic Forum and the Fourth Industrial Revolution (4IR) talked about by Cory Morningstar at the Wrong Kind of Green.
    I opine that this is the “soft landing” which TPTB are attempting to engineer.

    What irks me to no end is trying to discuss this stuff with leftists who reside in the USA. They refer to all this as “right-wing” or “reactionary” or “conspiracy theoretical”.

    The “leftists” — I put it in quotes because I have zero confidence that they are pro-working class whatsoever — have left me asking myself “Why would any dignified person with self-respect ever want to call the Left (as it articulates itself) in the USA his/her in-group or political orientation or moral tribe or community?” The most disgusting posters online I’ve ever associated with consider themselves “Marxists” or “socialists” (of some sort or another). They have rubbed off on me. Now I’m as filthy and disgusting as they are.

    (Sorry for the rant.)

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Is that you trying to be clever?

    Oh my…

  • Jay Hansen

    If it had been YOU trying to be clever it would have failed, wouldn’t it?

  • dreamjoehill

    You ignore the fact that there is disagreement about what 2bd amendment rights entail, I’ll give you a hint. They’re not unlimited.

    You have no constitutional right to a machine gun or a hand grenade.

  • JohnDoe00

    “Wokester.” Lol. Your boy Jimmy ain’t no “wokester,” is he? You might ban the racist mthrfker for not following your bullshit, arbitrary rules but it ain’t got sht to do with what’s right. You’re a fking hypocritical chump, Hayes – and a raging cvnt.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    “The U.S. is a degenerate declining empire, ruled by war criminals and swindlers.”

    Agreed, which is why I choose to be armed. If you really believe that, i don’t understand why you wouldn’t be, too.

    If things are as dire as you think, and a potential civil war is brewing, why would you not want to be defended? Are you content with the only people owning guns being the police, the military, criminals, and the right wing? I know I’m not. Should, coulda, woulda thinking about banning citizens from owning guns in this country runs counter to reality, as well as the 2nd Amendment. That ship done sailed a long time ago.

    Try this… go out to a gun range with a gun-owning friend (if you have any). It’s really not that bad. Gun-owners, for the most part, are good people, and I find target shooting quite fun. That my firearm can also serve as a protective tool makes it a win/win proposition, IMO.

  • Mensch59

    Six of my comments show up in my profile as “Removed”.
    An argument-counterargument exchange by one party cannot be “torn to shreds” when the moderators are censoring the discussion.
    (You see. This is why I know that I’m intelligent [along with CJ Hopkins] and you are irrational [and worse].)

  • CoCoLuv9491

    You can’t put the toothpaste back into the tube once it’s out.

    You will not take away over 300,000,000 guns from 145,000,000 gun owners. Will not happen.

    And I wouldn’t want it to happen. Maybe you’re OK with the only people that have firearms being the police, the military, and criminals (not legally of course), but I’m not.

    It’s very simple. You can choose to be armed, or you can choose to not be armed. Just like you can choose to have a fire extinguisher in your home, or not. The funny thing is no one ever needs a fire extinguisher until they do. The same is true of a gun.

  • You are certainly an expert on cultish religiosity. Not much of a free thinker, are you and the other conspiracy addled fruitcakes you embrace as “woke”?

  • Mensch59

    He’s another butthurt troll who got banned at The Digger/new levellers.
    When he sees Collectivist in an exchange, he chimes in with his “buddy”, i.e. a condescending, demeaning nickname guys use for other guys they pity or feel more influential over.
    Yeah. Those two are real “buddies”.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Are you really this stupid? (The answer is yes.) I don’t embrace any of that “woke” bullsht. You’re the one who’s always embracing their causes in your lame attempts to be a “real leftist.”

  • My post stands, oh High Priestess of the Digger “wokester” conspiracy addled fruitcakes, who are all curiously allergic to any opposition to your libertarian clap trap.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Just fling out a lot of words that mean nothing coherent, just vitrionic spittle. It works for the morons you admire, like JohnDoe00 and SteelPirate. LOL.

  • Was wondering if you plan on mail in voting for Trump, or going to the polls to really show your enthusiastic support? MAGA baby!!! …/s

  • dmorista

    Oh unfortunately some of what you say is true. Of course while there might be 145,000,000 gun owners (I have no idea if that is true), in fact something like 7/8 of the guns are owned by 1/10th of the population. In civilized places the police don’t have guns either, and mostly the criminals don’t have guns. Japan was very dangerous and crime ridden right after WW 2 and there were more guns around than there are now. But they managed to improve their society and now there is no street crime; life is not perfect but they have largely managed to remove violence from their society. We, unfortunately are moving in the other direction, at least as far as powhalitics is concerned, but even with that development American society is, in general, less violent than it used to be. Unfortunately collapsing empires have a bad track record when it comes to oppressing and sometimes killing off their inhabitants. I am 70 and don’t much care for myself, and the children and young adults I care about live in armed households.

    And yes a gun might prolong one’s life under certain circumstances, but the real problems we face cannot be shot or solved with guns. The stunning deterioration of the environment cannot be resolved using any sort or weapon. If the people of the Earth don’t figure out how to cooperate with each other it won’t particularly matter whether or not you have a gun. Where I now live the hot season is now a month longer than it was 20 years ago. What will happen 20 years from now?? We need computers, books, scientific equipment, and courage; I don’t see how guns will do any good.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Really into the hysteria today, aren’t you? (I understand. TA’s your idol too.) And stupid enough to think that voting matters! Well, given that you’re one of the one percenters, it sorta does for you, since you’re the ones that the guvment protects, you and your horsey estate and your Wall Street investments. But in the end you’ll get out you Mueller votive candles, cover Mueller’s face with Biden, and vote for that Nazi enabler cause nothin’s more important that gittin Trump, right, sugarplum?

  • dmorista

    You stated that “They broke down the gate.”, but basically without any proof. A bent up gate, shown on Fox News, does not qualify as proof. Quite likely there is no way to prove whether they did or did not “break down the gate”. BLM demonstrations have been overwhelmingly peaceful. The property damage and arson has generally begun after the Agents Provocateurs arrived in their cars and pick-up trucks with out-of-state plates. This has been noted repeatedly on the web. And it has very widespread previous history in the U.S. going back at least as far as the Haymarket Square bombing in Chicago over 120 years ago. Anti-war, civil rights, and environmental protests have always taken extesive measures to control any hotheads in their movements and to exclude Agents Provocateurs to the extent possible.

  • So that would be a “yes” to the “in person” voting for Trump, then. Get her done! LOL

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    You think that’s what it means? Like I said, you really are that stupid.

  • Southern posted a video on this thread somewhere of the peaceful protesters walking through the gate – and it was fully intact.

  • Yet we know you by your fruits, and you tore it down when the hundreds pushed through.

    Also, Sandmann won two $250,000,000 lawsuits, six to go. then there will be more.

    what you get for what you do to Babies in the womb though is what you will regret Eternally.

  • Oh, and since my replied to you on the “religion” board are not showing up:
    The Apostles are The Last Prophets of the Old Covenant and First Bishops of The New & Eternal Covenant.

    Men are Priests, Prophets and Kings; like Adam.

    Women are Mothers.

    you remember, the mother that coddled you into you spending every waking moment trying oc commit s*c*de by cop via paid trolling.

  • “I” wan’t there teapot person. The peaceful protesters were just walking through the gate. Why not admit reality?

    Sandmann is a punk.

    And “I” don’t do anything to babies.

    Hey speaking of babies, kids and other humans… what is your stand on the complete and utter abandonment of the poor and working class by government that gave Trillions to their fellow ruling class thieves?

  • Ah. So women can’t be ink pens. Got it.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    I don’t think guns are a solution. They are a defensive tool.

    As long as our system perpetuates mass poverty, income inequality, racism, and oppression of all kinds, there will be crime and civil unrest. When there is crime and civil unrest, there is violence. I want to be prepared as best I can for whatever is coming, whether from the street or from the state. Or if I take to the street to oppose the state. Whatever the scenario.

    Things are spiraling downhill rapidly now, and the proverbial sh*t is gonna hit the fan sooner rather than later.

    I fear we may be past the point of no return.

  • Collectivist

    You’re MUCH worse.

  • Collectivist

    Nice!

  • slow day in the ‘hood, C. What can I say…

    What do you think “conspiracy addled fruitcake wokesters allergic to any opposition to libertarian clap trap” … keeper?… LOL.

  • Collectivist

    Nice, too.

    Check out my post to EH about libertarianism (esp. her brand)

    That was written almost a decade ago.
    Still relevant.

  • Well do man.

  • When was that posting, C? Recently?

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    I must add this: you’re accusing me of being a woke libertarian? That is just too funny! You couldn’t have picked too more diametrically opposed groups, the hyper-authoritarian, anti-free speech woke frauds, and the libertarian frauds (I’m assuming you mean those nasty old right-wing Randian ones – unlike the wokesters, at least you know what they’re about, having spent your life being one). Stupid, selfish, dishonest and nasty is a miserable way to go through life, despite your extraordinary privileges. If I were a better person, I’d truly pity you. As it is, all I can do is laugh at your nasty stupidity and clumsy attempts to lisp “radical left” talking points. You and JohnDoe00, quite a match.

  • dreamjoehill

    You know you’re intelligent because you have access to your deleted comments and I don’t?

    Having an intelligent exchange with you is a real effort, ding dong.

  • Collectivist

    Recently for me.

    Originally:

    OP-ED
    George Monbiot: This Bastardised Libertarianism Makes “Freedom” an Instrument of Oppression
    by George Monbiot, The Guardian UK December 20, 2011

  • Well, you do run a hyper-authoritarian anti-free speech site, so there IS that.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    No, I moderate (not run) a site that allows free speech and guards against those who won’t allow it. Like you and your gang, or gaggle of fools, or however it could be termed.

  • Hey man, great article. Thanks for sharing. Keep up the good work brother – and thanks for your kindness to me over years. Peace man.

  • Collectivist

    Lol

  • Collectivist

    Worth repeating:

    “But you [Mensch]got “smeared” over at wsws. The y tore your pathetic “argument” to shreds and all you could do is feebly claim you were just being skeptical. Better stick to your cultish COVID denial sites. You can’t handle the real world.”

  • Mensch59

    The cultish WSWS does what you do, i.e. practices censorship. It’s an abuse of the right to dissent. You and your ilk despise dissent — demonstrating that you (pl) are lackeys of TPTB.

  • Jay Hansen

    Are we viamolating your snivel rights? Pobrecito.

  • Collectivist

    “The cultish WSWS does what . . .”

    . . .The Digger does: censor. . .and you’re too dishonest and/delusional to admit it, you s.f.b.😎

    How am I censoring anyone?
    Don’t need to.

  • Mensch59

    When you dismiss dissent you are engaging in censorship.
    It’s hard to believe that you are too stupid to see this about yourself.

  • Jay Hansen

    You fail to grasp the etymology.

  • Collectivist

    How stupid!

  • Mensch59

    Yep. Just like when you fail to see what a racist you’ve become. And what a gaslighter.

  • Mensch59

    The sadistic & malignant creep must again bring up the Lorrain-Carnegie bridge to once again demonstrate how evil Marxists can be.

  • Southern

    That’s not right – I’ve already posted a video here that proves beyond a doubt that the gate was undamaged when the firearms were pointed at the protesters.

  • Southern

    Ah! – Confirmation that you’re no leftist.

  • Southern

    The Canberra poodle club will do everything that Washington’s dogs of war desire.

    The Tasmanian mass shooting was a false flag event.

    The irony of it all is that the massacre was blamed on Martin Bryant, the person who was blamed for it all turned out not to have been capable since he was mentally challenged and eyewitnesses had never been called to give evidence since the case never went to court [ no thanks to his defense lawyer John Avery who acted more like the prosecution.]

    The gunman shot killed with deadly accuracy from the right hip, Bryant is left handed.

    Word is that the real shooter is still out there.

  • Southern

    Course you can put the tooth paste back in – whether you’ll be successful or not will entirely depend on your skill level.

  • Mensch59

    Confirmation that leftists have abandoned rationality, not that I’ve abandoned rational leftism.

  • Mensch59

    Links to investigative reporters please to the Port Arthur massacre of 28–29 April 1996 being a “false flag event”.

  • Oh, you were, just like you are totally complicit. you were there threatening to k*ll the family while pointing your own guns at them.

    just like you are personally responsible by your support for the Martyrdom of ~2,200,000,000 Babies since 1970, increasing by 125,000 a day. each of the worst sin of all, buying you (per count, no limit) special p*n*shment in h*ll worse than all else combined and a temporal bl*d price that must be paid even if you Repent.

    you are 100% brainwashed ideology though, or should I say pagan religion. it always turns up one of 2 ways, fatalistic d*th cult or fatalistic hedonism; you are in a mix of the two right now both trying to justify you want to “sacred violence” both Nicholas Sandmann and billions of Babies in the hopes they are d*mned in your place if you ritualistically sacrifice them, but also to trying to “justify” your burgeoning leftist push to p*doohilia. you dehumanize your victims for both the first and the latter; one to r*pe Babies, two to m*rd*r the evidence.

    (I have to censor myself more than usual because because I need to deal with some rabid monsters like you on youtube later and I want to use this post there as well as it is too Good not to. My baseline for simply posting Love, Absolute Truth, and Natural Law is having to outsmart gog employees and ai on a daily basis; not hard, just tedious getting around s-b*ns)

    which brings me to an article I read recently, called “Nick Sandmann Wasn’t Supposed to Survive. He Was Meant to End Up Like Mike Adams” on stream. you hounding the poor boy reminds me of the same honest bl*dthirst I see in Mike Adams threads on youtube where those indistinguishable from you (that same smugness and d*th worship just seconds away from s*c*de among all leftists near the last straw if their evil) wish horrible things then openly threaten to k*ll anyone who defends the simple fact your scapegoat is human.

    Never have I seen this clear of a textbook example of René Girard’s “scapegoating principle,” as how your kind treats us now. We are honestly not only at the point of civil w*r, but that where we need to form milit*s just to go to the store safely.

    That same impulse made you m*rd*r Mike Adams for th*ght cr*me, that makes you wish you hired a sh*t*r for Nick Sandmann for the capital c*me of “smiling while wh*te.”

    this is what got Nick $250,000,000, and he’s only done 2 of 8 of who he already won a case against. then he plans to go after twitter and more. He will win that too, you know it, which is why you wail and gnash.

    I do find it interesting that you openly claim the life of Babies is held hostage by your insistence that if we do not allow total government control and sl*very through abolition of responsibility (and therefore freedom and morality), you will perform the worst satanic ritual of all until you think you will bully us into pretending “ye will be like gods” if you pretend to “overthrow” God’s Order.

    really, the devil’s century ended in 2017, and you have come to the startling realization that the dark master that controlled and pushed you isn’t really around anymore.

    this is why you HATE Trump, because you confuse Trump’s election with the devil’s total invalidation for all time just because they happened simultaneously.

  • No, women can only be Mothers in the same way blue can only be blue.

    Like I said, the end of the “devil’s hour” of God’s day in 2017 really unseated you as your master is gone.

  • you are quite a lot like @suspendedfourths:disqus

    your entire position is based on sneering due to shame over s*xual sin. that is not a foundation for anything, and so you try to fill the rest with your liberal delusion of “immanetized eschaton.”
    projecting this on your enemies will neither absolve you or damn them on your place.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    The protestors tore down the gate. That fact is undisputed.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    ???

    Maybe. But you’ll need more than skill to confiscate all the guns in this country from all the gun-owners.

    Go back and read the Bill of Rights, specifically the 2nd Amendment,

  • Collectivist

    “The protestors tore down the gate. That fact is undisputed.

    They were marching on private property”

    OMG
    That’s sacrilegious!

  • “shame over sexual sin”? How is it you can’t even type “sexual“?? LOL

  • Hey lady, you must be off your meds. Get help.

    You actually posted this: “My baseline for simply posting Love, Absolute Truth, ” and not only did you not get around to the love or truth part, you went into obscene delusional accusations. Pedophilia? Kill you? Get outta here. Haha.

    In your ramblings, you forgot to answer my question:

    Hey speaking of babies, kids and other humans… what is your stand on the complete and utter abandonment of the poor and working class by government that gave Trillions to their fellow ruling class thieves?

    Here’s something that will send you round the bend. I am a Marxist. BOO!!! LOL

  • dmorista

    First, as I posted earlier, Australia, has a similar Macho gun culture as the U.S. has. It does not have as many corporate oligarch sponsors promoting guns or as many dystopian former industrial cityscapes and third world rural areas as the U.S., so the problem was not quite as intractable. But after a mass shooting incident, in Tasmania, they banned the ownership of many types of guns. They have many fewer fascistic police raids into their homes than the U.S., with its 80,000 SWAT raids a year does. Australia is the closest analog to the U.S. for this issue, you really cannot compare the savage semi-primitive U.S. to current day Japan, Germany or Taiwan; Brazil or South Africa or Mexico are better analogs. Mexico, Kenya, Egypt, Colombia, and Pakistan all have lower rates of people killed by the police than the U.S. does btw.

    I had read, over the years and in several places, that the number, or at least the percentage, of gun owners in the population was declining. So I looked at a couple of articles. The Washington Post (in “Americans vastly overestimate the number of gun owners”, May 7, 2018, Mark Joslyn & Donald P. Haider-Markel)
    reports that it is generous to put the percentage of gun owners as high as 20% – 30% of the population. So that puts it at 65 – 95 million or fewer; a significant number to be sure, but not 145 million. 45% of Republicans own guns compared to 15% of Democrats (according to an article at Gallup, “What Percentage of Americans Own Guns?”, Aug 14, 2019, Lydia Saad).

    There is a whole ideology and public relations / propaganda aspect to gun ownership. It is closely manipulated by right-wing politicians who figure they can depend on the great majority of right-wing gun owners and, of course, the gun and munitions makers and the retailers that sell guns. Public interest groups made an attempt to require gun makers to take financial liability for their deadly and dangerous products, but naturally the gun makers had expensive lawyers and they won. The NRA has changed from being an organization that represents gun owners to an organization that represents gun manufacturers. Part of the argument for guns is involved with the image of a majority or near majority of the population being gun owners, added to the myth of gun ownership levels in the past. Studies by historians have shown that in the early days of the country very few people actually owned guns, they were far too expensive for most people.

    It would be better, I suppose, if there are some armed progressive people, but they will be so outnumbered by the 70,000 commandos (the only part of the military that the ruling class considers to be reliable), the sorts of police squads Trump has been using over the last couple of weeks, and the numerous right-wing paramilitaries and vigilantes, that it does not inspire any confidence in me. The British Empire, when it came to an end decided, albeit reluctantly, that it was better to withdraw from its overseas possessions and maintain and expand a decent society at home. Forcing the important issues politically, like basic universal income, health care reform, reinvigorating public education, and so on holds a lot more promise to me than a degeneration into armed camps. If we see the sort of developments both you and I fear could occur the U.S. will turn into a nightmare. I hope we can avoid that.

  • Mensch59

    Confirm to your heart’s content that you are anti-rational.
    See the article and comments on the article — ‘We must inoculate ourselves against the crazy Anti-Rationalists” — recommended by Maxwell on The Digger.

  • Collectivist

    Yep.

    “If one portion of the earth’s surface may justly become the possession of an individual, and may be held by him for his sole use and benefit, as a thing to which he has an exclusive right, then other portions of the earth’s surface may be so held; and eventually the whole of the earth’s surface may be so held; and our planet may thus lapse altogether into private hands. Observe now the dilemma to which this leads. Supposing the entire habitable globe to be so enclosed, it follows that if the landowners have a valid right to its surface, all who are not landowners, have no right at all to its surface. Hence, such can exist on the earth by sufferance only. They are all trespassers. Save by the permission of the lords of the soil, they can have no room for the soles of their feet. Nay, should the others think fit to deny them a resting‐​place, these landless men might equitably be expelled from the earth altogether. . .”

    https://www.libertarianism….

  • My posts go into pending at WSWS, but wanted to say.. the stuff in that Guardian article Scary as sht.

  • milo

    The “right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” That applies to white and black, left and right, liberal and conservative.

    Except if you’re Philando Castile. Stopped for a traffic stop, he told the officer he had a registered gun in the glove– but had a valid carry permit.

    So the cop emptied his gun into Castile, while his wife filmed the encounter. Yup, Philando was black.

    The lesson to be learned from Philando’s experience as well as that of the couple in this article is that nearly always, the presence of a handgun makes any confrontation worse.

  • milo

    We can bury them all at sea until someone buys up the oceans.

  • dmorista

    I’ve read some stuff, three or four years ago as I recall, about how the Chinese and Russians were offering the U.S. ruling class cooperation in setting up a “soft landing” for them. Apparently there was no particular interest in that offer.

    The current U.S. rulers are, in fact, delusional. If the U.S. were to actually try to reindustrialize itself it would find the process a fairly arduous process. Just the creaky old electrical generating system is a problem. Modern industrial operations use a lot of electricity. The U.S. simply cannot generate it.

  • JohnDoe00

    The outer shells of Coco, Hayes et al are slowly beginning to be peeled back thus leaving their defense of capitalism exposed – even to themselves. Some won’t care what we reveal of their true nature. Some will no doubt find themselves in agreement with them. And that’s ok. For me, what’s important – and this is as true for Maxwell as any – more so even, is that their mantles as leftists be stripped from them. Separating wheat from chaff has never been as important. Hell, to some extent, C., as many of these lost vermin don’t fking know, we’re now actually showing many of them which side they’re on.

  • MrRedwoodGuy .

    In addition to dicing up all the property on the surface, above the surface and below, then came property rights to mental constructs; melodies, words, ideas, algorithms, sounds, stories, shapes and colors. “Intellectual Property rights” is now the core of all global trade. One’s ideas can be owned by others before it even enters one’s mind.

  • Mensch59

    USAn re-industrialization is a delusion, I agree, and we are also in agreement with “The current U.S. rulers are, in fact, delusional.”
    It’s possible that the North American continent’s populations could descend from collapse to chaos to violent anarchy. But I think that overt police-state totalitarianism in the USA will be established prior to general collapse.

  • JohnDoe00

    All your emotional concern for the 2nd Amendment and your fking gun is nothing more than a g’damned distraction and ruse, CoCo. It’s all about your sacred right to private property isn’t it? Every last stinking syllable by you reeks to high heaven with “Get the hell off my lawn” and “Not in my back yard!” And all that while bitching and moaning about those evil Dems. What a fraud. Tell me, where does a naked and exposed clown keep such a big gun? 🤡

  • dmorista

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
    State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
    infringed.”

    That is the text of the “sacred” second amendment. It says nothing about vicious lawyers “defending” their palatial home against a crowd of peaceful unarmed protesters passing by to go to the home of the mayor. The McCloskeys were mostly spooked because they are used to being protected by the thug services at the courts in the St. Louis area. I wonder if they practiced in Ferguson??

  • Collectivist

    “. . .Some won’t care what we reveal of their true nature. Some will no doubt find themselves in agreement with them. And that’s ok. For me, what’s important – and this is as true for Maxwell as any – more so even, is that their mantles as leftists be stripped from them. Separating wheat from chaff has never been as important.”

    Indeed.
    Whether it’s a conscious, concerted effort* to confuse the ‘unsuspecting’ by conflating right & left, or their individual reactionary politics naturally converging, what The Digger objectively represents, imo, is cyberspatial counterrevolution.

    A few of them, like the recently ‘banned’ St. Jimmy, are your garden variety retrobates and ‘middle class’ deplorables (unhinged and uninhibeted). Mensch, the political munchkin, imo, is clueless, primarily looking to win cyberspatial friends, rather than political clarity. . .and stay off the couch all night* . . .

    However, having examined Fauna & Flora’s, and Elizabeth Hayes’commentary (and I do regret, having not taken heed much earlier to your astute observations😎 about her )*
    I’ve come to think that they are ideological rightwingers, with a real mission: STOP the left, by any (cyberspatial) means necessary. Like Trumpinc – on the ‘ground’ of class struggle – they’ve probably discerned that there are enough low and no information people, in addition to those who don’t really give a fk, + the other rightwing sites to online, to at least, obfuscate everything; at most, recruit more rightwingers.

    * I was discussing some of our past online cinflicts with some local comrades – in light of our current reconciliation – and while most of us don’t subscribe to Maoism anymore (some never did) we found the quote below to be insightful and relevant, now more than ever.
    Right now, because of the global spotlight on Louisville, among other places, and the multiplicity of competing and contending forces which have emerged, – not to mention the need for principled alliances – this has greatly utility:

    “Contradiction and struggle are universal and absolute, but the methods of resolving contradictions, that is, the forms of struggle, differ according to the differences in the nature of the contradictions. Some contradictions are characterized by open antagonism and others are not. In accordance with the concrete development of things, some contradictions, which were originally non-antagonistic, develop into antagonistic ones, while others which were originally antagonistic develop into non-antagonistic ones. ”

    Mao“On Contradiction,” (August 1937), Selected Works, Vol. I, p 344.

    “We must learn to look at problems all-sidedly, seeing the reverse as well as the obverse side of things. In given conditions, a bad thing can lead to good results and a good thing to bad results. ”

    On the Correct Handling of Contradictions Among the People, (February 27, 1957), 1st pocket ed., pp. 66-67.

  • JohnDoe00

    This is great stuff, C.
    Really.
    However you do it, it’s important I think to try and give these swamps some on-the-ground context and conduit to the vast world unplugged and away from our machines. I think you’ve been saying as much for awhile. And I agree. It ain’t easy but unless we take the experiences here and put some brain and muscle into them, they may bot be useless – but close.

  • Collectivist

    Coco, imo, is mostly a highly disgruntled (probably, formerly, dyed-in-the-wool) – Democrat.

    Once he saw the ‘light’ he became a ‘hammer.’ Now everything he opposes looks
    like a (Democrat) nail.

    He apparently has no real theory beyond that. . .but he’s objectively useful to the cyberspatial counterrevolutionaries.

    I could be wrong.

  • dmorista

    They certainly have been working to impose an authoritarian regime, at least since the September 11, false-flag operation. But there is a large faction of the U.S. ruling class, the MIC / High Tech faction, that wants to remain as viable players on the world power scene. If they are serious they will have to make some basic concessions, like basic universal income, and health care for more of the population, and the like. They think that the U.S. can continue to bring in South and East Asians to be the innovators and high-tech entrepreneurs; and the old-line White population will continue to be split into about 1/3 successful and prosperous; and the other 2/3 bought off with minimal social welfare benefits.

    They think they can coordinate with other Western countries to provide a basic high-tech system and upgrades. Advanced cell phone technology from Finland, and other material from Japan, S. Korea, Germany, France etc. The ruling classes of the world are, justifiably afraid of but dependent on China. It will certainly take leadership that is more sophisticated than the Trump regime to pull something like that off.

    Webster Tarpley was railing against windmills and solar power on his last show, but he was dead right when he pointed out that the U.S. electrical generation grid ain’t up to a real industrial boom. Where are people of the stature of Alexander Hamilton this time around. Working as financiers or dead from mysterious plane crashes I guess.

  • EH and F and F have become emboldened over time and no longer feel compelled to make any pretense of alignment with the left. Previously with EH at least, she was more subtle and discreet – harder to hone in on.

    These days anyway, it is apparent that they are aligning with the absolute worst of the ideological right wingers and are out to stop the left. They pretend that the left doesn’t exist and eagerly seek to invalidate any and condescend to all criticism from the left. At best, they are muddying the waters. It is telling that there is little or no critique of the fascist trends of Trumpinc and any criticism of the material reality on the ground and actual that he (pl) is perpetrating on people, is either ignored or simply dismissed as TDS.

  • Collectivist

    “It is telling that there is little or no critique of the fascist trends of Trumpinc and any criticism of the material reality on the ground and actual that he (pl) is perpetrating on people, is either ignored or simply dismissed as TDS.”

    Confirmation, imo.

  • Mensch59

    Are there ANY school shootings/massacres/school shootings which you don’t investigate as “false flag events” carried out under the auspices of national security intelligence networks, or are you only focused on the Port Arthur massacre?

  • SteelPirate

    More reactionary garbage. Lain Davis the writer of “We must inoculate ourselves against the crazy Anti-Rationalists” is a self-admitted class traitor who abandoned the political left for right-wing libertarian ideology and conspiracy nonsense.

    —————

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott the Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Mensch59

    The “class traitor” is you, SP.

  • Mensch59

    There isn’t going to be intelligent/sophisticated leadership/statesmanship when “The current U.S. rulers are, in fact, delusional.” The U.S. ruling class is self-perpetuating.
    For example, I think that HRC & Biden & Obama combined are more delusional than Trump, and I think that Trump is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

  • Mensch59

    Maxwell was absolutely correct about Two Americas/Harbinger being a chameleon and about TA having gone off the rails. Those of you who still hang on to TA as some sort of mentor and who have turned traitor against Maxwell are delusional.

    I feel sympathy for you, and I realize that you and I will never find reconciliation in this life. Hence, you & Collectivist are reduced to trolling me. JohnDoe00 and newest at least have the common decency to (mostly) ignore me. I kindly suggest that you follow suit.

  • larrymotuz

    And if you’d gone out there with your gun, then violence would have occurred, right? You’d have caused it shooting what were, by and large, peaceful protesters exercising their civil rights to protest actions by governmental authorities which shred common decency and civil society.

  • Surprise, surprise! It sounds like our old friend “Truth Warrior” is back under a new moniker! How’s your Manifesto going?

  • SteelPirate

    More nothing from the reactionary poodle and useful idiot. Here’s something poodle. “Living Marxism.” Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

    ——-

    The LM group believe that society, business and science, especially biotechnology, are being held back by fear of risk and experimentation. Spiked Online is one of two main outlets currently used by the group, the other being the Institute of Ideas, founded by Claire Fox.

    Spiked organises numerous seminars with most to date on IT related topics. However, they but have also taken in issues such as genetic engineering, climate change, the debate over vaccination and hosted the Danish environmental sceptic Bjorn Lomborg

    Spiked has a close association with the PR firm, Hill & Knowlton. Of the 34 seminars Spiked has organised in the last three years, over half have listed Hill and Knowlton as Spiked’s “partner/sponsor” and been held in the PR company’s office.

    Other sponsors and partners have also included the IBM, the Royal Institution of Great Britain, the Institute of Psychiatry, the corporate lobbying group International Policy Network, the Institute of Ideas and Tech Central Station.

    ——————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Mensch59

    Thanks for your trolling, esp as a response to your beloved mentor TA/Harb fleeing the scene once again.
    Getting trolled by you is evidence that I’m on the correct path, esp after the vile things you wrote about my partner and your use of numerous sock puppet accounts to down vote and spite-flag posts.

    If you are an example of a true “Marxist”, then I want nothing to do with your (singular) set of ideas about the political economy.

  • SteelPirate

    Yawn…more nothing from the reactionary poodle and useful idiot…

    This corporate-alignment is also to be found at Spiked and still more at the Institute of Ideas where events are put on, for example, in ‘association with Pfizer’, the giant pharmaceutical company that aggressively promotes biotech, and with ‘thanks’ to CropLife International (a ‘global federation’ led by BASF, Bayer, Dow Chemical, DuPont, Monsanto and Syngenta). In a Times’ interview, the director, Claire Fox, is drawn on another sponsor, Novartis. Asked who they are, she responds, ‘Pharmaceuticals, I think. I don’t know who they are.

    The LM network or LM group is a superficially loose and informal network of individuals and organisations sharing a libertarian and anti-environmentalist ideology. Spiked and the Institute of Ideas, both established in 2000 by close associates and for many years operating from the same address, Signet House 49-51 Farringdon Road EC1M 3JB, previously the offices of Living Marxism.

    None of the organisations associated with the LM network provides a breakdown of funders and how much they have provided. We do know, however, that they are funded by corporations that fund think tanks dedicated to promoting their interests in the political and media spheres. For example, the pharmaceutical company Pfizer has funded Spiked, the Institute of Ideas’ Battle of Ideas in 2005 and 2006, the Debating Matters programme and two organisations with which the LM network has connections, the Science Media Centre and Sense About Science. Both of the latter are engaged in managing debate about scientific issues.

    ———————

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Mensch59

    I guess it’s only a coincidence that you decided to troll me again so soon after TA?Harb cravenly flew the coop… again.

  • SteelPirate

    Yawn…more nothing from the reactionary poodle and useful idiot. Here’s something poodle…

    ——-

    This became the ideological rationale for the RCP’s embrace of capitalism, which displayed in microcosm the process taking place among the entire pseudo-left. Furedi declared that the RCP’s missions was to promote “confident individualism” without any social constraints against a “culture of limits” or “culture of low expectations”—Thatcherite nostrums that would become the bread and butter of Spiked and its affiliates. In an echo of Ayn Rand, the aim was to advance the “actualisation of the individual against society.”

    The RCP was officially dissolved in March 1998 in an article by Hume calling LM a magazine that promotes “an agenda very different to that of the old left” and declaring Marxism to be irrelevant because there was no possibility of a politics based on the working class.

    LM published an article by Ron Arnold, the executive vice president of the Centre for the Defence of Free Enterprise, calling for the destruction and eradication of the environmental movement as part of Furedi’s vision of a regroupment transcending left and right of “all those who believe human beings should play for high stakes.”

    LM organised events with sponsorship from large corporate interests, including the Adam Smith Institute and FOREST, the front group funded by the tobacco industry.

    The LM magazine came to end in 2000, after Britain’s Independent Television News (ITN) sued it for libel and was replaced by Spiked-Online. It has continued providing the same platform for the right-wing, corporate front-groups and think tanks such as the Hudson Institute and Centre for Global Food Issues. It has also received sponsorship from the telecommunication industry such as BT and Orange, and the Mobile Operators Association to host “debates” to downplay concerns of the impact of mobile phones on health and the environment.

    Alongside Spiked also emerged the openly pro-corporate Institute of Ideas, headed by Claire Fox, which hosts the Battle of Ideas and is heavily focused on organising events on behalf of corporate sponsors. Alongside these are a host of other corporate lobbying groups, particularly around bio-technology interests, which have been established by individuals from within the RCP tendency and students of Furedi from the University of Kent. The various organisations receive corporate sponsorship ranging from pharmaceutical giants such as Pfizer, energy corporations such as Exxon and a host of others.

    Furedi, a professor of Sociology at the University of Kent, was named in 2004 by the British Sociological Association as the “most prolific of UK sociologists.” He has released a series of books while contributing articles to the Wall Street Journal in defence of the infamous agrochemical company Monsanto and producing a pamphlet for the Centre for Policy Studies, a thinktank established by Thatcher.

    ———————

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • larrymotuz

    The erosion of public trust in others, enhanced by the continued licensing of ‘fake news’ outlets, has progressed to the point where I, an outsider looking in, have abandoned all hope that the U.S. can survive its divisions.

    Conditions in parts of the United States rival those of Third World countries of 40 years ago … and it looks like they will get much worse without getting better. The unwillingness of governments to secure the well-being of all Americans is, ultimately, the Achille’s heel of a nation which needs wars just about everywhere to prop up an economy whose infrastructure has deteriorated as the wealthy have faced lower and lower taxes.

    It is far better to be rich in a society where all have shares in the wealth of their nation than to be rich in one where few do.

  • Mensch59

    Darn. I thought at least you might enjoy my criticism of Caitlin Johnstone’s article.
    Your usual twaddle is a big yawn-eeoh.

  • Mensch59

    Again, thanks for your trolling. Sure do appreciate it when you and your ilk demonstrate your true colors — which is nothing like “Give me the Red abd Black flags” (Anaxarchos).

  • SteelPirate

    Yawn more nothing from the poodle and useful idiot. In good company with this illustrious “leftist source” and a##hole below. Funny stuff…

    Jeffrey Albert Tucker is an American economics writer of the Austrian School, an advocate of anarcho-capitalism and Bitcoin, a publisher of libertarian books, a conference speaker, and an internet entrepreneur.

    As of 2018, he is Editorial Director of the American Institute for Economic Research and Chief Liberty Officer (CLO) of Liberty.me.Tucker is also an adjunct scholar with the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a research affiliate of RMIT University’s Blockchain Innovation Hub,and an Acton Institute associate.

    —————————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    The Castle Doctrine is law in Missouri. I didn’t make it so. You hysterical identitarians are OK with tossing aside the law so you can have a little feel-good moment of righteousness.

    If you think the BLM/Soros movement gathers popular support when “protesters” destroy the property of others, whether of residents or businesses, I’d say you faux leftists are pretty much out of touch with the same working class folks you pretend to represent.

    The bottom line is this… no one was hurt (either McCloskeys or protesters), no property was destroyed, no riot occurred, no police intervention was necessary. I’d say the brandishing of firearms by the residents worked just as intended.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    “I could be wrong.”

    Ya think?

    Maybe look up “projection” in a Psychology 101 textbook. A little self-diagnosis might be useful for you.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Sacrilegious? Hardly.

    Illegal? Fear-inducing? Definitely.

  • Mensch59

    Sources for members of “The Genuine Left™” to post on, e.g. the World Socialist Web Site, have gone full fascist with your/their condemnation & censorship of dissent.
    You have more in common with Nazis than Jeffrey Albert Tucker does.

  • Mensch59

    What you stupid-heads fail to perceive is that both overt totalitarianism (to complement “inverted totalitarianism” [Sheldon Wolin]) and capitalism can be fought simultaneously. You fail to see this because you are radical statists, i.e. you lust for the power of the state to be managed and administered by you and your ilk — filthy authoritarians all — who would rather murder red anarchists than work with us. You are class traitors, not Coco, Hayes, et al.

  • Mensch59

    Right-libertarians fall into that category.
    Not left-libertarian anarchists like Emma Goldman.

  • SteelPirate

    More nothing from the reactionary poodle. Anaxarchos would tear you to shreds you pitiful groupie….

    Once upon a time, there was a feudal constitution or rather, a million of them – one for every distinct feudal fiefdom and each of these mutable (changing from generation to generation and changing again when the underlying balance of power shifted). These existed not just within feudal territories but more or less loosely across them (depending on where we are talking about), within the larger political division (i.e. “countries”, but not in the same sense as “nations”, today – these were much looser and less powerful than the modern state), and finally, between the church and the remainder of society. These feudal constitutions essentially defined the sum total of all of the relationships between all of the members of that feudal society, articulated as “rights”. The lord of one fiefdom, for example, may have the “right” to one fourth of the harvest of the serfs bound to that fiefdom plus 12 days of labor per year for each peasant. With his underlords, the same Lord may have the “right” to call out each underlord to war for 100 days and the underlord would have to provide, at his own expense, 3 armored and mounted knights, 30 men-at-arms, 4 bowmen and so on. In theory there was a complete set of reciprocal rights, down to the tiniest detail, and the whole, with its infinite complexity and variation, was supposed to constitute the sum total of “feudal relations”. In some cases, these rights were “traditional” and largely oral, and in other cases they are explicit, detailed and written down.

    There are historians who have tried to call this mess a feudal “contract” but that is just the illusions of the present applied retroactively. There was no body, no courts, no laws, and no “principle” that stood above or apart from this mish-mash. To the extent that such existed at all, they were part of this infrastructure (and this includes such things as “common law” which wasn’t “law” at all, but a simple generalization of this feudal right), and “chartered” by it.

    The thing that changed the game was the rising class of capitalists within the cracks of the feudal society. The most important early expression is as merchant capital and while these guys are “commoners” socially, they provide cash in a largely cash free society and the more cash they accumulate, the more important they become. The first demands of these characters is typically for things like a uniformity of tariffs, tolls and taxes and the like but even in this, they are “revolutionary”. Uniformity directs them toward the strengthening of the central authority (the monarchy) which previous to this point is largely nominal. In turn, the deal is codified in the form of charters which grant them certain “rights”. Entire towns, within the feudal territory but exempt from it except through a written set of mutual obligations, the “chartered towns”, are one result.

    Now, we’ve got to jump forward a distance. As the capitalists become ever more important, and the feudal classes more redundant, the so-called ”absolute monarchies” rise, ironically for the first time, in the tension between the two. It starts to become clear that “feudal right” will be superceded by “civil right”. The formulation of this is quite naturally in contractual form. Oddly, there is in this formulation a division between what is called “individual right” and “civil” or juridical rights. “Individual” or “natural rights” are considered to be “god-given” and “inalienable” even when they are alienated (“endowed by our creator…”). They are supposed to be common to all human beings even in the “state of nature” (a very important early bourgeois concept), and these rights, most commonly, are “life, liberty, property”. You aren’t supposed to be able to kill someone, enslave them or take away their property without compensation because god or nature said so.

    You can blame Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679 Leviathan) for a good deal of this. Hobbes claimed to derive these “natural rights”, formally, from the very nature of man. Of course he posited a completely self-interested, self-absorbed, atomic man so that there was no doubt that it was bourgeois nature that was in question. In all honesty, I think the distinction is purely historical in that Hobbes came earlier than the others and was moved by the English Civil War and the build-up to it. The English connection, the conservative nature of the American “founders”, and the “newness” of the other rights probably accounts for the traditional distinction, such as it was, in America. The later characters like Locke, Hume, and Rousseau are fully aware of the silliness of this and Hume actually eviscerates Hobbes on this. Less than a century later, that ever practical designer of prisons, Jeremy Bentham, says “Natural rights is simple nonsense: natural and imprescriptible rights, rhetorical nonsense — nonsense upon stilts.”

    The rest of juridical, civil, and political rights are supposed to come from the “social contract” – “human beings” remove themselves from the “natural state” and cut a deal with each other to form a civil society and the obligations and rights that come from this are representation, and equality before the law, and some “freedoms” (i.e. “The Rights of Man” or “Human Rights” or the “Bill of Rights), yadda yadda. Hobbes’ version is in the “natural law” form of nine “thou shalts” and “thou shalt nots” (the third one is thou shalt honor contracts), some of which are handed down to us in the form of meaningless platitudes. The later political philosophers actually articulate most of what is familiar to us and form “the body of rights” but which also pull up short exactly at the borders of private property. Of course, crossing that boundary is “social democracy” or the extension of the previous “rights” plus a trunk-load of new ones encroaching directly on property and originally defining itself as “extending” democracy into the social realm.

    So where do libertarians fit into all this? They don’t. They are a made-up political philosophy. No matter what “tradition” they may claim or attempt to sound like, they are actually gibberish. Libertarians are the scientologists of modern politics, much flakier than their slogans might indicate. They didn’t really have a political philosophy as such until Ayn Rand (pop gibberish) and the attempt to create a “philosophy” out of whole cloth didn’t really start until the 1960s or 1970s. The term “Libertarianism” is interchangeable with “Classical Liberalism”. The problem is that there ain’t no such thing as “classical” liberalism.

    Remember that the entire Libertarian movement starts out as a reaction to State intervention to moderate capitalist economic crisis and the unrestricted “freedom” of individual enterprises to do as they like, despite the social and political impact of this on the rising social opposition from below. Initially, it begins as a combination of political partisanship with the biggest capital (the “philosophy” of robber barons) and an economic theory that claims that crisis stems from “government intervention”, rather than the other way around. The modern form grows directly out of opposition to Weimar, the New Deal, and John Maynard Keynes.

    As political philosophy though, it cannot generally claim the capitalist “tradition”. The complex of capitalist rights, designed to protect capital as a whole and born from a revolutionary spark, do not give primacy or even equality to “laissez-faire”. Instead, they are a complex patchwork for class primacy but without the slogans for “small government”, or “deregulation” or “privatization” or the “primacy of the individual”, anywhere to be found – not in Conservative doctrine and not in Liberal. In politics, there is very little help from Locke, Hume, or Rousseau just as with economics there is virtually no help from Smith, Ricardo, Mill, or even Bentham. The trick is to recognize the weaknesses of capitalism and survive nevertheless – not to blithely go forth on some heavenly mission directed by the ghost of John D. Rockefeller.

    The side effect of this is that the Libertarians reach back to Hobbes and “natural right”, expressed as “individual rights”. These are considered, not as historical precedents for “rights” in general but as the rights which have “primacy”, even as the only “real rights” (and of course of natural rights, property is the most important, etc.). They claim a fundamental conflict between “natural right” and the equally fictitious “natural law”. Because even Hobbes is not fully satisfactory, they reach back even farther to feudal scholars and the entire perspective has been called “medieval politics” despite it’s use of “democratic” slogans. In truth, that gives the Libertarians too much credit.

    When the history of this era is written, the reach of Libertarianism in economics, law, politics, and policy will be evidence of just how reactionary the capitalism of the French Revolution had become in just two short centuries and how easily it stripped itself of even it’s own homemade clothing.

    Meanwhile, Jonathan Wallace probably had the last word on “individual rights”:

    ”We are all at a table together, deciding which rules to adopt, free from any vague constraints, half-remembered myths, anonymous patriarchal texts and murky concepts of nature. If I propose something you do not like, tell me why it is not practical, or harms somebody, or is counter to some other useful rule; but don’t tell me it offends the universe.”

    And what of the “Left Libertarians”? They count as mere groupies unable to afford the tickets to this concert. Incapable of understanding or even hearing the music, they satisfy themselves by having a crush on the drummer.

    –Anaxarchos

  • JohnDoe00

    You aren’t arguing with or against “Democrats” anymore, CoCo. No more Purple Crab dances that have you blending into the crowd with your “Lock Her Up” chants and/or a Maxwell up-vote. You’re standing there, even now, answering questions not asked of you. Regardless of the law – the capitalist law – blabbering about your rights to a gun and the sanctity of private property in the face of widespread working-class assault demonstrates both your personal and political priorities. You’ve been exposed, boy. My advice? Go to the Digger, CoCo. They keep leftists out over there.

  • Mensch59

    Anaxarchos would be wrong about this then. He’s not infallible, even if he’s dead.

  • SteelPirate

    More nonsense from the reactionary poodle…

    A “progressive” is someone who cannot admit to the systemic failure of capitalist society. Through this stubborn blindness, they reveal their own fundamental loyalty to the social system as a whole. The solution to the “anti-democratic” turn in American politics is not to question its foundations but to proscribe “more democracy” or “real democracy”, without evaluating for a minute whether the “turn” is really an aberration. In economics, a “progressive” is one who blames an excess of greed, a deficiency of regulation, or the corruption of the state rather than the normal operation of capitalism. In this way, “progressives” are identical to right-wing libertarians who, in the face of insurmountable evidence, continue to insist that it is “too little” and not too much “free enterprise” which is the problem.

    They also both share with Nazis, their predisposition to conspiracies. It is secret societies, international bankers, “Jews”, who pull the strings and undermine the New Jerusalem. We need a capitalism based on good intentions says the one, based on a strengthening of the “individual” claims the next, and one purged of corruption declares the last. Fixing capitalism is the highest and in fact the only slogan of all of the above, and this in the most trivial and unhistorical way possible. Those are the last and the only words of this brand of “radical” criticism which is actually a radical support for the society as it exists… if only that society could be “allowed” to achieve its “true nature.”

    ——————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    LOL. You’re still clueless as usual. And still unhinged.

    I’m waiting for your next best-seller – “How To Win The Hearts And Minds Of The Workers By Destroying And Vandalizing Homes And Businesses.”

    That should be a real hoot.

  • SteelPirate

    More beliefs nonsense from the clueless reactionary poodle. Best you go back to wrestling with the unclean spirits that overtake you in the outer body realm. Politics ain’t your game. Have a great day a##hole. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

    ——-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Mensch59

    More than one realm, you stupid and insane technobarbarian who pretends to be a “pirate”.
    I refer you to Emma Goldman’s essay “Anarchism” and its first chapter “What It Really Stands For”.
    In that essay Emma writes “ANARCHISM: The philosophy of a new social order based on liberty unrestricted by man-made law; the theory that all forms of government rest on violence, and are therefore wrong and harmful, as well as unnecessary.

    “The new social order rests, of course, on the materialistic basis of life; but while all Anarchists agree that the main evil today is an economic one, they maintain that the solution of that evil can be brought about only through the consideration of every phase of life, — individual, as well as the collective; the internal, as well as the external phases.”

    “Fanatical atheists” (Albert Einstein) are dogmatic and illiberal and rigid about the material basis for life being the one & only foundation for life.

    Again, as has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, you are insane.

  • Mensch59

    You clueless radical statists cannot even discern private property from personal property as you pretend to be oh-so-exceptional-and-special class conscious “Marxists” capable of setting up workers’ collectives.
    Fakers the lot of you.

  • SteelPirate

    Yawn…more irrelevant word-salad trash and sophistry from the reactionary poodle. Now…on to the latest reactionary Digger trash…

    “Why herd immunity to COVID-19 is reached much earlier than thought – update”

    Nicholas Lewis is a wildly successful financier and entrepreneur from England who appears to be among the “climate change de-emphasis” crowd. In other words a climate science denier. Not a surprising source from the right-wing scumbag “Fauna&Flora”

    ————————–

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • chetdude

    I can’t really grow anything but coffee trees, citrus trees and coconut palms in my lava rock.

    We lucked out this time — the fossil-fueled, AGW powered Hurricane Douglas passed far enough to the north to allow the southern part of the Big Island to get by with just a bit of high-winds — 30-40 mph gusts and no rain.

    Actually, it was a beautiful sunny say down here. Our Ohana on the other islands weren’t so lucky.

  • Mensch59

    Your condemnation of small businesses demonstrate (1) you despise the working class (2) you would be fine giving the power of brain & heart surgeons over to the lumpenproletariat.
    You are too stupid for words as you hide behind your fake “Marxism”.

  • SteelPirate

    More fiction from the reactionary poodle. And no defense of the climate denying right-wing scumbag just put up at the right-wing scumbag site the Digger.

    Now on to more reactionary scumbag stupidity from the Digger collection. From the Encyclopedia of dangerous lunatics…

    ——

    Jon Rappoport is a deliriously insane “independent researcher” and blogger. According to his bio, he “has lectured extensively all over the US on the question: Who runs the world and what can we do about it?” For the last decade, however, he has “operated largely away from the mainstream” because, as he puts it, “[m]y research was not friendly to the conventional media.” Indeed. His independent research encompasses “deep politics, conspiracies, alternative health, the potential of the human imagination, mind control, the medical cartel, symbology, and solutions to the takeover of the planet by hidden elites.”

    He is, for instance, a germ theory denialist, and in his post “Germ theory and depopulation” (discussed here) he argues that “in general, so-called contagious diseases are caused, not by germs, but by IMMUNE SYSTEMS THAT ARE TOO WEAK TO FIGHT OFF THOSE GERMS” (yes, the capitalization is in the original). Indeed, “GERMS ARE A COVER STORY. What do they cover up? The fact that immune systems are the more basic target for depopulation and debilitation of populations.” The main tool is of course vaccines, which are weapons the nefarious powers that be use to kill off, well, it is a bit hard to see, partially because Rappoport’s post is mostly all-caps from there. At least HIV is a cover story as well.

    He has a similar screed on flu vaccines if that’s the kind of stuff you fancy reading. It is barely grammatical, but at least he gets his enthusiastic anger across rather well.

    Currently Rappoport seems to write on various topics for InfoWars. Recently, for instance, Rappoport and InfoWars dubbed Rep. Tim Murphy’s bill seeking to reform the way the government addresses mental health services a “diabolical legislative package,” since Rappoport thought the legislation would require almost all children to take “psychiatric meds,” and that the bill will ultimately give the federal government “a monopoly of the mind.” Yeah, that’s the way he rolls.

    ——-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Mensch59

    Maybe start your own blog with only “Marxist” approved content, heavy with the censorship, dripping with elitist condescension for all of the minds smaller than yours.

  • Collectivist

    “Sure do appreciate it when you and your ilk demonstrate your true colors — which is nothing like “Give me the Red abd Black flags” (Anaxarchos).”

    Sure.

    You prefer: “Give Me Liberty or Give Me Covid”

  • the hundreds of protestors before they waved guns at and threatened to murder two people for the crime of being “white.”

  • No, this is my only account (at least active one), never went by that name.

    Now, evil incarnateC if you would address my actual post.

  • Yes, I could tell you were a marxist (and worse) by simply reading your posts. I pointed that out so many times.

    The soviet execution tactic in the first sentence of your reply here showed that as well.

    My whole post answers (and refutes, which is why you ignored it) you, but let me repeat myself:
    I do find it interesting that you openly claim the life of Babies is held hostage by your insistence that if we do not allow total government control and sl*very through abolition of responsibility (and therefore freedom and morality), you will perform the worst satanic ritual of all until you think you will bully us into pretending “ye will be like gods” if you pretend to “overthrow” God’s Order.

    really, the devil’s century ended in 2017, and you have come to the startling realization that the dark master that controlled and pushed you isn’t really around anymore.

    this is why you HATE Trump, because you confuse Trump’s election with the devil’s total invalidation for all time just because they happened simultaneously.

  • I can, now what about your actions?

  • Now, tell the class what happens to “comrades” like you (ESPECIALLY “comrades” like you specifically) after your “revolution” is over and you have “outlived usefulness.”

  • Collectivist

    Since you seem to know, why don’t you “tell the class”.

  • you will be liquidated, painfully.

    you are proven 2 things;
    1) stupid enough to believe the lies of communists, and therefore will believe the lies of the next dictator
    2) you are proven violent and without humanity, and therefore neither conducive to society or to a regime that wants to stay in power.

  • Collectivist

    I’m waiting for your best-seller: “Why Small Businesses Are The Vanguard Of The Working Class”

    OR

    “I Was A Hired Gun For the Pettibourgeois”

  • Uh oh. This fundy trailed me here. Sorry the monkey is on your back now… 😕

  • larrymotuz

    I didn’t see any threatening behavior except by those wielding their guns at civil protesters on their way to their mayor’s house.

    Only the gun-wielders threatened violence.

  • Worse than a Marxist? Wow!

  • Distributism is the solution to all ills, but you don’t want solutions as you deny all life, property, and anything that gets in your way of pride.

    “my name is che guevara and I am worth more to you ali-”

    or “i am perplexed, confu-”
    (latter is crowley’s last words)

  • so threatening to k*ll the McCloskeys (on tape) and brandishing weapons at them (the McCloskey’s guns aren’t even real or functional) is “civil?” McCloskey’s defended themselves, the Fourth Natural Right.

    Don’t worry. The response of normal people to those like you will be *very* “civil.” you won’t be able to twist reality upside down when it comes to a close,

    Ask your ssri ak47 friend in austin.

  • yes, as marxism is just an intermediary, “useful idiot,” “outer circle” tool of fabian make. like how liberalism created freemasonry to organize, and then “atheism” as a tool for even the outer-circle of the outer-circle.

  • Collectivist

    The abolition of profit-generating private property is the solution.

  • SteelPirate

    More goofy drivel from the poodle…

    “New viruses are inevitable. Deadly outbreaks have occurred throughout human history. In fact, the scientific community has been warning about a global pandemic for years. Just last year, government ministers were warned about the potential danger they pose, and were urged to stockpile PPE in preparation. Yet nothing was done.

    Under capitalism, it is the needs of big business that are always put first. The needs of people and the planet come a distant second. The last decade of austerity is a clear demonstration of this. In fact, it is precisely these cuts that have made the impact of the virus so devastating.

    As Marxists, in total contrast to the capitalists, we are only interested in understanding and explaining reality. We do not need to rely on conspiracies to explain the world around us. The facts are damning enough, without the need for conspiracies: capitalism is holding society back, posing an existential threat to humanity itself.”

    —————

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Collectivist

    Oh?
    Let him bring it.😎

  • Chrsterton discussed you in”The Man Who Was Thursday”

    “The outer ring—the main mass of their supporters—are merely anarchists; that is, men who believe that rules and formulas have destroyed human happiness. They believe that all the evil results of human crime are the results of the system that has called it crime. They do not believe that the crime creates the punishment. They believe that the punishment has created the crime. They believe that if a man seduced seven women he would naturally walk away as blameless as the flowers of spring. They believe that if a man picked a pocket he would naturally feel exquisitely good. These I call the innocent section.”
    “Oh!” said Syme.
    “Naturally, therefore, these people talk about ‘a happy time coming’; ‘the paradise of the future’; ‘mankind freed from the bondage of vice and the bondage of virtue,’ and so on. And so also the men of the inner circle speak—the sacred priesthood. They also speak to applauding crowds of the happiness of the future, and of mankind freed at last. But in their mouths”—and the policeman lowered his voice—“in their mouths these happy phrases have a horrible meaning. They are under no illusions; they are too intellectual to think that man upon this earth can ever be quite free of original sin and the struggle. And they mean death. When they say that mankind shall be free at last, they mean that mankind shall commit suicide. When they talk of a paradise without right or wrong, they mean the grave.
    “They have but two objects, to destroy first humanity and then themselves. That is why they throw bombs instead of firing pistols. The innocent rank and file are disappointed because the bomb has not killed the king; but the high-priesthood are happy because it has killed somebody.”

  • SteelPirate

    F##king foul dog imbeciles. “We oppose capitalism but we defend “the natural rights” of private property.”

  • SteelPirate

    Most of these f##kers have always known what side their on. That’s why they attack the radical left and leftists at every opportunity. History shows that these perpetual fence sitters and yeah butters will side with the owners and the fascists every time when the s##t hits the fan.

  • I would prefer you come to your senses. violent temper tantrums get expected results.

  • SteelPirate

    Very well said brother Doe 🙂

  • Collectivist

    “Best you go back to wrestling with the unclean spirits that overtake you in the outer body realm. Politics ain’t your game. “

  • Do you know what Marxism is?

  • larrymotuz

    I heard of no threatening to kill other than those of the persons wielding guns at those peaceably walking by.

    And if someone pointed a gun at me walking by, I might issue some threats back at such retarded behavior.

  • I do recall that I just described its origins to you.

    marx took it from his coven, as he was their fall guy. hegel and feuerbach were his mentors, one even his tutor if I recall.

  • Of course, you don’t seem to think much of anything not directly fed you.

    you might even surround their house with 300 of your most hysterical and murderous “comrades” who would turn on you at a moment’s notice. Of course, you would do that before they decided to protect their home from your ethnonarcissistic tantrums.

  • SteelPirate

    I’d lay 10-1 odds there was never any bridge jumping. More Dizzy fiction and an audition for a writing gig or some such s##t is more likely. I’ve considered this is a street wise hustler we’re dealing with here despite that intellectual veneer.

  • SteelPirate

    Disaffected progressive and right-wing have never been mutually exclusive when it comes to the “rights of man” in the economic sphere. “Small C” capitalism the rallying cry.

  • larrymotuz

    Now, I have ‘comrades’, eh.

    Could you please tell me who these are? Or, maybe you could introduce them to me to see if I regard them as ‘comrades’.

    Of course, it was the French revolution which introduced the term ‘comaraderie’ as a blanket, conjoint term for fraternité/sororité.

    “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité” are, or course, without American equivalents, as is the fullest meaning ‘camaraderie’. /s

  • JohnDoe00

    Yeah. You may be right, SP. 10-20 yrs back I think it was infinitely easier to tell yourself those little fairy tales about who and what you were; what you “believed” in. Money was good to a lot of these people and there looked to be no end to the privilege birthrights. Hell, Hayes was most likely still even telling herself she had a chance at tenure. The only thing really expected of the Obama Liberal was to not let the fat & happy slip down the economic rungs. Never mind the corpses already at their feet. The CoCos of the world had worked hard for their money.

    And then he failed them. Those damn Democrats all failed them…

  • SteelPirate

    His head is submerged in the piss-streamed swamp. It’ll be drained sooner than later 🙂

  • Southern

    All comments posted on WSWS will go into pending.

  • Mensch59

    There, there. Be a good NLOMist*.
    *Neo Liberal Ostensibly Marxist

  • Mensch59

    And special comments get posted.

  • SteelPirate

    “Afaics, you’re neither red nor anarchist. If you were you wouldn’t be defending a site which promotes the opposite of both.”

    Bullseye…

  • Yep, you’re “down with the cause.”

    Does not mean it is down with you.

    Ask the guillotine.

  • Mensch59

    Nice. No wonder socialists & collectivists hate/despise G.K. Chesterton.

  • I particularly despise them calling him “anti-Semite” for the crime of claiming Israel should have been recognized a country and the Jews a real people.

  • larrymotuz

    You are a natural born idiot, it appears, constructing nonsense wherever you go and whenever it pleases you.

    My ’cause’ is the equal dignity of all human beings.

    Clearly, that’s something you do not believe in as practical. You would rather define some as the ‘enemy’ rather than as human beings like yourself.

    And if they are not your enemy? Well, then you’ll make them so in your own mind.

  • SteelPirate

    Both the author and his writing should be smeared. Hopkins is a joke a reactionary opportunist scumbag. A useful idiot for business as usual and the owners. He gets paid better than you for the job.

  • Yes, they claimed the guillotine was a great “leveler.”

    leveled all of France; may never recover from that even 250 years on

  • Mensch59

    I don’t believe that it’s easily deniable that Jewish peoples have ethnicities, but carving up Palestine for Ashkenazi Jews who lived in Europe for centuries doesn’t make much sense. The results of a study using DNA samples show that most European Jews descend from local people who converted to Judaism, not individuals who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago. But this wasn’t known at G.K. Chesterton’s time.

  • larrymotuz

    Ask the French which country they prefer then … yours or theirs. At least they understand the meaning of the terms they use, unlike yourself.

  • Collectivist

    “Your condemnation of small businesses ”

    Not really

    However, we realize that, more often than not, they: 1) are breeding grounds of reactionary politics 2) are wannabe predator capitalists 3) they usually form the social base of fascism

    “. . .Historically, fascism was defined by Marxist theorists, such as George Dimitrov, Leon Trotsky, Franz Neumann, Sweezy, and Nicos Poulantzas, in class terms, as movements that had their mass basis in the mobilization of the volatile lower-middle class/stratum or petty bourgeoisie, which tends to be procapital (but opposed to what they see as elitist, crony, and financial interests, sometimes mixed, as in Nazi ideology, with anti-Semitism), as well as being anti-working class/anti-immigrant, racist, and xenophobic. The lower-middle class is subject to a fear of falling into the great “unwashed,” poverty-stricken working class below. At the same time, they are very suspicious of the upper-middle class above them, which is more educated and is often more aligned with the liberal-democratic state.

    As Karl Marx stressed, class boundaries are always porous and, in many respects, most of the lower-middle class or stratum can be seen as objectively part of the expanded working class, particularly today, when relatively few among this stratum can be said to own their means of production. Nevertheless, the distinctiveness of what constitutes the lower-middle stratum (culturally as well as economically, and often ethnically) is fairly evident at a practical level. In the United States, this population is predominantly white and nationalist, enjoying economic, cultural, and racial privileges, and frequently setting itself apart as the authentic so-called middle class. It constitutes maybe 20 to 25 percent of the population in most advanced capitalist societies, though its influence extends beyond its numbers.

    To be sure, movements in the fascist genre are never simply about sheer numbers. The mass mobilization of the radical right, which makes it a singular force, operating on the basis of its own ideology, is normally only possible when backed by significant sections of monopoly-finance capital, who provide the economic support and the means of access and organization. At the same time, big capital dominates the actual political-economic terrain in which movements of the radical right develop. Once a fascistic movement comes to power, there is an effort at the top to purge—if necessary, by extremely violent means—the movement so as to eliminate the more “radical” cadres, thereby subordinating them completely to the interests of the dominant capitalist fraction. At the same time, attempts are made via Gleichschaltung, or bringing into line, to use propaganda and terrorism to dragoon elements of the upper-middle class and working class, broadening the actual material support for the regime.

    There is of course little in the way of any direct historical connection between today’s neofascist movements and the fascist moments of the 1920s and ’30s (despite the fact that figures like Donald Trump’s advisor Steve Bannon reached back into the fascist/neofascist tradition of the 1930s, by way of figures like Italian fascist Julius Evola). Nevertheless, there are broad commonalities to fascist-genre movements stretching across history. The neofascism emerging in the United States today (even entering into the White House) has a peculiar American vernacular of white supremacy dating back to slavery and settler colonialism, mixed with all sorts of new ideological elements. Still, the breeding grounds of such reactionary movements share certain similarities in class terms. If you look at what is referred to as Trump’s militant “political base,” consisting of about 25 to 30 percent of the electorate, what you find is that it consists largely of the lower-middle stratum, with family incomes in, say, the realm of $75,000 a year—a sector of the population which is heavily white and in a position of extreme economic insecurity (fear of falling), while ideologically nationalist-imperialist, with the accompanying militant racism. Much of this demographic, moreover, is associated with right-wing evangelism. In many respects, this is similar to what is being seen today in Jair Bolsonaro’s Brazil.

    It is big business within the neofascist bloc that invariably calls the shots in the economic sphere. As far as capital is concerned, it is still the cash-nexus that is first and foremost. Trump’s chief worth to the ruling class lies in the fact that, due to the political leverage that he has derived from the mobilization of the radical right, he is able to deliver value added to the wealthy, while eliminating obstacles to the market’s sway over all aspects of society.. . .”

    Monthly Review Press

  • Mensch59

    Why is the opinion of an NLOMist* on CJ Hopkins of any worth?
    *Neo Liberal Ostensibly Marxist

  • Mensch59

    Admit it. Don’t be afraid. You are only trolling me because your hero Harb/TA disappeared again, right?

  • Collectivist

    “Then they are not radical or revolutionary.”

    The Digger, in a NUTSHELL.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    I’ll wait to write that after you and your gaggle of faux leftists convince working class folks that small businesses are bad for them, and deserve to be destroyed by rioting “protesters.”

  • SteelPirate

    In every political community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times. Ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.

    -Phil Ochs

  • JohnDoe00

    Spot on. Lol.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Your video proves nothing. It shows protesters marching through a gate while one of them holds it open. There is no evidence that it was the gate they tore down to gain entrance to the McCloskey’s private property. Photos of that gate clearly show it bent and knocked to the ground.

    The McCloskeys destroyed their own gate? Agenda-driven identitarians like you would have a hard time convincing objective observers of that.

  • Collectivist

    I would not tell them that “small businesses are bad for them”.

    Instead, I’d them them that BIG business is their enemy and their BEST BET is to support socialist revolution . . .

  • SteelPirate

    The problem with idiots like you and Hopkins is you think history is confined to your lifetime and subjective bubbles. Pampered a##holes who have no dog in the fight and pontificating from a perch above it all. The scabs and morons without a pot to piss in like Hayes that buy into that reactionary nonsense are even worse.

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • SteelPirate

    More fiction and puppet talk from the poodle. Your trim is still showing after Dizzy gave you a do over…

    Trimming The Poodle

    The growing tendency to confuse Socialism with reform of one sort or another”an attitude assumed, on the part of its unwise friends, to make it “respectable” and palatable to capitalistically trained minds, and by its enemies, on the other hand, to sap it of its essence and run it into the ground”compels the Socialist Labor Party again to draw clear and true the old line of cleavage between Socialism and social quackery, between reform and revolution.

    On Oct. 26, the New York Times contained a letter which said, “The assumption by Socialists of credit for championship of many valuable principles which belong properly to democracy is a usurpation…. But any educated thinker knows that these best parts of the good ideals — not the antirent, anticapital parts, but the humanitarian parts”are all essentially democratic and old.” So Mr. Shailer Mathews, speaking of the attempt of Paris in 1790 to feed its poor, declares, “In fact, the socialistic tendency was marked, and the masses were being supported in large part by their municipality.”

    As for the conception of Socialism implied in the above two excerpts, it is laughable. To use the words of the Times letter, Socialism without the “the antirent, anticapital parts” would be like astronomy with the law of gravity left out, or zoology with evolution left out. It would be an egg with no nutrition, a watch without works, a locomotive minus driving wheels. It would be inconceivable, a mere inextricable contradiction in terms. It would not be Socialism at all, any more than a house without foundation, sidewalls, floors or roof would be a house.

    For it cannot be too strongly insisted that Socialism means but one thing, and that is the abolition of capital in private hands, and the turning over of the industries into the direct control of the workmen employed in them. Anything else is not Socialism, and has no right to sail under that name. Socialism is not the establishment of an eight-hour day, not the abolition of child labor, not the enforcement of the pure food laws, not the putting down of the Night Riders, or the enforcement of the 80-cent gas law. None of these, nor all of them together, are Socialism. They might all be done by the government tomorrow, and still we would not have Socialism. They are merely reforms of the present system, mere patches on the worn-out garment of industrial servitude, and are no more Socialism than the steam from a locomotive is the locomotive. Socialism is the collective ownership of the mechanical equipment of production which would bring in its wake all the other improvements in conditions above mentioned. But they are only the wake”Socialism is the vessel which must cast that wake, Socialism is the locomotive from which these betterments are the trails of steam.

    Therefore, while not opposing any reforms or improvements which may be secured under capitalism, the Socialist Labor Party steadfastly sets its face against taking time away from its main battle, for revolution, in order to carry on the struggle for reform. It refuses to be maneuvered into abandoning its main demand”the tools of production for the producers”in order to fritter away its energies chasing butterflies in the field of immediate demands. It turns a blind eye and an unresponsive lip to the tempting baits so deftly twitched before the noses of the working class to lead them astray into side issues and blind alleys. The one demand of the Socialist Labor Party is Socialism, unadulterated and undiluted”the unconditional surrender by the capitalist class of the machinery of industry.

    And while rejecting the interpretation of socialism which would remove its “antirent and anticapital parts,” the Socialist Labor Party insists that it is the most humanitarian movement on earth. More so than philanthropic ventures, reform societies, and charity associations; it, and it alone, carries within its program the highest humanitarian hopes and possibilities of the race. All the other movements are based on aspiration alone. The the Socialist Labor Party stands out unique as the only one based on the material program which will make the realization of those aspirations an accomplished fact. Socialism alone will supply the basis for any permanent improvement in the condition of mankind.

    As a poodle may have his hair cut long or his hair cut short, as he may be trimmed with pink ribbons or with blue ribbons, yet he remains the same old poodle, so capitalism may be trimmed with factory laws, tenement laws, divorce laws and gambling laws, but it remains the same old capitalism. These “humaniitarian parts” are only trimming the poodle. Socialism, one and inseparable with its “antirent and anticapital parts,” means to get rid of the poodle.

    –Daniel DeLeon

  • NightriderXP1

    WTF? What’s sinful about sex? The christian gawd told his followers to go out and multiply. How in the world are they supposed to multiply without having a lot of sex???

  • Mensch59

    Bullseye

    Nope. That rat f##ker couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn with a 12 gauge.

  • Mensch59

    You fakers and posers who call yourselves “the radical left and leftists” but who are actually NLOMists deserve a little pushback every now and then.

  • Mensch59

    That’s all well and good. It’s you fakers and posers who call yourselves “the radical left and leftists” — but who are actually NLOMists and radical statists — who despise anarchists and libertarian commies — who are closer to the liberals than left-libertarians are.

  • SteelPirate

    LOL…what an obedient poodle. Dizzy must give this foul dog a lot of treats. Wait till she starts spanking the poodle in a fit of rage 🙂

  • Mensch59

    Spot on.

    Yep. You “buddies”* sure know how to project.
    *buddy – Urban Dictionary
    “a condescending, demeaning nickname guys use for other guys they pity or feel more influential over”

  • Mensch59

    I’ve given up on “reform”.
    Peddle your lies with someone enamored by your ability to cut and paste.

  • Collectivist

    And Star holds him down while she’s spanking him. . . and cuts him off again😉

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Anybody with half a wit understands that BIG business is bad for workers.

    You’ll have a harder time explaining that when protesters indiscriminately target big and small businesses for vandalism, as well as people’s homes, it’s good for workers.

    If a poor, black, family home owner got out a gun when protesters trespassed on his property, I expect you’ll take the same stand against him as you do the McCloskeys. Or do you believe race and class are exclusions to prosecution?

    How about a large group of black militiamen marching on a public street, armed to the teeth? Do you have a different standard for them than you would a white militia?

    Because I don’t. The 2nd Amendment is inviolable. It applies across all barriers – race, religion, class, and status.

  • SteelPirate

    🙂

  • SteelPirate

    More unadulterated fiction from the Dizzy one.

  • SteelPirate

    Dizzy Lizzy the voice of the boss and the owners.

    “Don’t use that tone with me, or I will suspend you.”

    “If you can’t be polite to your superiors, there will be consequences.”

    “I own this place, and you are a guest. I make the rules, and you must follow them.”

    “You are just a troublemaker.”

    “You are spreading negativity and harming productivity.”

    “Your attitude is pulling down the team.”

    “This is your last warning.”

    “This is more in sorrow than anger.”

    “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, now tone it down ”

    “I have nothing against you personally, but for the good of the group you must go”

    “Everyone else seems to be able to follow the rules. What is wrong with you ? ”

    “What makes you think you are so special ? ”

    “Why should we all have to make an exception for you ? ”

    “Who do you think you are ? ”

    “If you are so smart, why aren’t you the boss ? ”

    “If you don’t like the way we run things, why don’t you run your own place and then you can be the boss ? “

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    When you get right down to it, all they are are Democrats who pretend to be Marxist radicals online. If they were at all radical they wouldn’t get all TDS hysterical. Apparently these days they’ve learned to love the CIA.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Oh. Gee. The quotes are in my history, aren’t they?

  • SteelPirate

    Hehe…:)

  • SteelPirate

    Indeed you have poodle. You now promote the unadulterated gospel of anarcho-capitalism and its attending sophistry of “universal rights.”

    ————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Mensch59

    I think that it’s cool & groovy when you idiots cannot tell anarcho-capitalism from libertarian socialism. It only proves that you have your heads stuck so far up your rectum that you cannot see worth feces.

    What is implied by the term ‘libertarian socialism’?

    Ulli Diemer, “What is Libertarian Socialism?”, The Anarchist Library

    It’s so hilarious when you NLOMists (Neo Liberals Ostensibly Marxists) accuse libertarian socialists of advocating for capitalism. Project much?

  • SteelPirate

    Like I said poodle. The ghost of Bakunin laughs at you. You ain’t nothing but a disaffected reactionary t##t and a bootlicker of he owners. Always were and always will be.

    Life dominates thought and determines the will. This is a truth that should never be lost sight of when we wish to understand anything about social and political phenomena. If we wish to establish a sincere and complete community of thought and will between men, we must found it on similar conditions of life, or on a community of interests. And as there is, by the very conditions of their respective existence, an abyss between the bourgeois word and the world of the worker,–the one being the exploiting world, the other the world of the victimized and exploited I conclude that if a man born and brought up in the bourgeois environment wishes to become sincerely and unreservedly the friend and brother of the workers he must renounce all the conditions of his past existence and outgrow all his bourgeois habits He must break off his relations of sentiment with the bourgeois world, its vanity and ambition. He must turn his back upon it and become its enemy; proclaim irreconcilable war; and threw himself wholeheartedly into the world and cause of the worker.

    If his passion for justice is too weak to inspire him to such resolution and audacity, let him not deceive himself and let him not deceive the workers. He can never become their friend and at every crisis must prove their enemy. His abstract thoughts, his dreams of justice will easily influence him in hours of calm reflection when nothing stirs in the exploited world. But let the moment of Struggle come when the armed truce gives place to the irreconcilable conflict, his interests will compel him to serve in the camp of the exploiters. This has happened to our one-time friends in the past. It will happen again to many good republicans and socialists who have not lost their attachment to the bourgeois world.

    –Bakunin

    ——————————

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • SteelPirate

    LOL…he’s kicking you and the Digger fools around like a rag doll on a daily basis. Not surprising you’re lashing out. One thing’s for certain. C was a worker who represents the working class. You were a worker who represents the ruling class. A class traitor and a “yeah but” poodle for the owners.

    —————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Mensch59

    Yeah. Letter carriers represent the ruling class.
    Posting drunk again?
    Collectivist only knows how to troll and flame.
    No wonder you two are such “buddies”.
    buddy — Urban Dictionary — “a condescending, demeaning nickname guys use for other guys they pity or feel more influential over”

  • Mensch59

    You ain’t nothing but a disaffected reactionary t##t and a bootlicker of he owners. Always were and always will be.

    There goes the pirate blathering on about himself and his clique of “buddies” again.

  • SteelPirate

    There is no “libertarian-socialism” going on at the Digger and you ain’t no socialist of any kind poodle. You’re a run of the mill liberal/economic libertarian t##t trying to reinvent yourself into something you’re not and never will be. The same as your pathetic other half. That’s a fact. That you won’t admit to that is beyond pathetic and pitiful. That you and those Digger reactionary scumbags are trying to appropriate the radical left from its history in opposition to capitalism, the owners, and private ownership of industry is beyond laughable. There are people paid well to do just that. Many of the writers and outlets you cling to. You’re not one of them, and that idiots like you and Hayes are not paid for your laughable efforts, makes you even worse. You have no self-respect and are the worst kind of useful idiot.

    —————————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Mensch59

    It’s too bad that you have your head stuck so far up your rectum that you cannot identify the libertarian socialists on The Digger/new levellers.
    I used to think that you had some intelligence and insight.
    No more.

    You have no self-respect and are the worst kind of useful idiot.

    There you go again with that projection thing. You are getting really Really Really good at it. Good for you. Practice makes perfect.

    You’ll be posting to yourself for awhile. I’m putting you on notice ignore.

  • Collectivist

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Collectivist

    Actually, you should be asking Trump for bunker space.

  • SteelPirate

    “TDS hysterical”…another reactionary right-wing quotation and more delirious fiction from the Dizzy one. Now here’s a little quote for you Little Miss Small Business Owner.

    M. Karl Marx, the illustrious leader of German Communism, justly observed in his magnificent work “Das Kapital” [2] that if the contract freely entered into by the vendors of money -in the form of wages – and the vendors of their own labor -that is, between the employer and the workers – were concluded not for a definite and limited term only, but for one’s whole life, it would constitute real slavery. Concluded for a term only and reserving to the worker the right to quit his employer, this contract constitutes a sort of voluntary and transitory serfdom. Yes, transitory and voluntary from the juridical point of view, but nowise from the point of view of economic possibility. The worker always has the right to leave his employer, but has he the means to do so? And if he does quit him, is it in order to lead a free existence, in which he will have no master but himself? No, he does it in order to sell himself to another employer. He is driven to it by the same hunger which forced him to sell himself to the first employer. Thus the worker’s liberty, so much exalted by the economists, jurists, and bourgeois republicans, is only a theoretical freedom, lacking any means for its possible realization, and consequently it is only a fictitious liberty, an utter falsehood. The truth is that the whole life of the worker is simply a continuous and dismaying succession of terms of serfdom -voluntary from the juridical point of view but compulsory in the economic sense – broken up by momentarily brief interludes of freedom accompanied by starvation; in other words, it is real slavery.

    This slavery manifests itself daily in all kinds of ways. Apart from the vexations and oppressive conditions of the contract which turn the worker into a subordinate, a passive and obedient servant, and the employer into a nearly absolute master – apart from all that, it is well known that there is hardly an industrial enterprise wherein the owner, impelled on the one hand by the two-fold instinct of an unappeasable lust for profits and absolute power, and on the other hand, profiting by the economic dependence of the worker, does not set aside the terms stipulated in the contract and wring some additional concessions in his own favor. Now he will demand more hours of work, that is, over and above those stipulated in the contract; now he will cut down wages on some pretext; now he will impose arbitrary fines, or he will treat the workers harshly, rudely, and insolently.

    –Bakunin

    ——————————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • SteelPirate

    Here’s a quote Little Miss Small Business Owner and “realist” capitalist bootlicker.

    The portentous development of our present economic system, leading to a mighty accumulation of social wealth in the hands of a few privileged parasites and to constant repression of the great masses of the people, prepared the way for the present political and social reaction and befriended it in every way. It sacrificed the general interests of human society to the private interests of individuals, and thus systematically undermined every social relation between people. Where industry is everything, where labour loses its ethical importance and workers are nothing, there begins the realm of ruthless economic despotism, whose workings are no less disastrous than those of any political despotism. The two mutually augment one another; they are fed from the same source. Anyone who studies profoundly the economic and political development of the present social system will recognise that profound crisis is a logical outcome. Modern monopoly capitalism and the totalitarian capitalist state are merely the last stages in a development which could culminate in no other end.”

    –Rudolf Rocker

    ——————————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • SteelPirate

    Poor soul. The strain of having the source of your reactionary chains exposed more than you can bear again. Not surprising you gutless bloviating sophist coward. Like the punk schoolyard bully who says knock this chip off my shoulder and then gets knocked out and runs home to mommy. In your case… you’ll run home to Dizzy. Maybe she’ll pat you on the head and give you a treat for your efforts.

  • SteelPirate

    Being a retired blue-collar letter carrier doesn’t absolve you from being a class traitor and a bootlicker for the owners and private capital.

    Private appropriation of the Earth’s surface, the natural resources, and the means of life is nothing less a crime than a crime against humanity, but the comparative few who are beneficiaries of this iniquitous social arrangement, far from being viewed as criminals meriting punishment, are the exalted rulers of society, and the people they exploit gladly render them homage and obeisance.

    –Eugene Debs

    —————————

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • SteelPirate

    LOL…there are ZERO socialists on the Digger. Not a one. There is however a sordid collection of abject reactionaries of every reactionary stripe. You’re a joke and a bad one at that.

    ————————-

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • SteelPirate

    !!!!!!!

  • SteelPirate

    CoCo The Clown…let us pray together you bootlicker.

    A popular insurrection, by its very nature, is instinctive, chaotic, and destructive, and always entails great personal sacrifice and an enormous loss of public and private property. The masses are always ready to sacrifice themselves; and this is what turns them into a brutal and savage horde, capable of performing heroic and apparently impossible exploits, and since they possess little or nothing, they are not demoralized by the responsibilities of property ownership. And in moments of crisis, for the sake of self-defense or victory, they will not hesitate to burn down their own houses and neighborhoods, and property being no deterrent, since it belongs to their oppressors, they develop a passion for destruction. This negative passion, it is true, is far from being sufficient to attain the heights of the revolutionary cause; but without it, revolution would be impossible. Revolution requires extensive and widespread destruction, a fecund and renovating destruction, since in this way and only this way are new worlds born.

    –Mikhail Bakunin

    You are horrified at our intending to do away with private property. But in your existing society, private property is already done away with for nine tenths of the population; its existence for the few is solely due to its non-existence in the hands of those nine tenths. You reproach us, therefore, with intending to do away with a form of property, the necessary condition for whose existence is the non-existence of any property for the immense majority of society. Precisely so. That’s just what we intend.

    –Karl Marx

  • SteelPirate

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha… the latest from the illustrious Digger from F&F the right-wing scumbag.

    “COVID-19 Stats Betray the Facts and the American People.”

    Authored by maniacal right-wing reactionary scumbag ophthalmologist Kris Held MD. She of the President Of AAPS title of fame and fortune. LOL

    “Capitalism requires a free market. There is not a free market now. This is a result of increasing government interference and big corps buying off or threatening politicians. We need less government and more free market. Less socialism and more individualism and freedom.”

    — Kris Held MD

    The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is a small group of physicians who, under a false authoritative name, advocate for far-right conservative values in the practice of medicine. While purporting to have high regard for the Hippocratic Oath, “the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship, and the “practice of private medicine”, it appears to treat these concepts as terms of art. Despite also calling itself “non-partisan”, its main focus appears to be opposing abortion, vaccination, universal health care coverage and Obamacare in particular, and birth control.

    Members of the AAPS believe that President Barack Obama may have hypnotized voters and that climate legislation is a threat to human health. Some of the group’s former leaders were members of the John Birch Society.

    The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (JPANDS) is the official journal of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS). The AAPS tries to represent itself as a legitimate medical professional society, but in reality it promotes antivaccine views, HIV/AIDS denialism, and an Ayn Randian view of the world in which doctors are supermen, Medicare is unconstitutional, and the government should never interfere with physicians’ prerogatives.

    ———————

    Public service announcement…

    Boycott The Digger and all right-wing propaganda. Your life depends on it.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Avoid the question, like all you scum do.

  • Nylene13

    Glad you are OK.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Hey Parrot!

    All your Marxist sloganeering aside, I’m curious about how you and your little cabal of true believers are going to lead workers in a socialist insurrection when both you, and they, have ceded total authority to the benevolent state, inasmuch as it’s doing it’s very best to protect you from the dreaded Megadeath Virus of Doom?

    What if the state says you can’t revolt yet because you might get sick and die? I guess you and your iPhone-zombie army will have to wait until your authoritarian benefactors give the “All Clear!”

    That could be a while. But, I’m sure, being good, compliant citizen patients, you’re all willing to wait until Fauci and Gates declare the time is right to proceed with your revolution.

  • Southern

    Looks to me that you fail to admit that the gate was intact when the McCloskey’s pointed their firearms.

    It does not appear to be their own private gate but a pedestrian access to the gated community.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    It’s still private property, which Mr. and Mrs. McCloskey had a right to defend. No one was shot. The protesters behaved themselves. No harm was done. Nothing to see here. Time to move on.

    Now, why don’t you get back to more serious matters, like how you and your protesting buddies are gonna spend that next check coming in from Soros. Are there other private citizens you can intimidate and harass, so you can cry foul when they take steps to defend themselves?

    I thought you all had problems with the police. Why are you harassing home owners? Oh, that’s right – they’re wealthy and white, so therefore fair game.

  • JohnDoe00

    What question? Hey. I got a question, Hayes: why are most all of the Digger “sources” right-wing reactionaries – at best? And str8 fking nutjobs at worst? Coincidence?

  • TUSAgain

    No one was injured, and, at least in this instance, nobody’s property (other than the gate) was damaged.

    Heaven forbid!! Don’t harm the private property!!

    I stand behind both the “scumbag lawyers” and the black militia (I believe all blacks should be armed in this country, as well as all women).

    Ain’t the Bill of Rights grand? Both scumbags and blacks get to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights!

    At times, I truly believe this guy is punking us….then I remember….he’s not even original…just loud, crude and utterly “merican”.

  • TUSAgain

    Right, …. the firearms probably prevented the protestors from rioting, and destroying private property.
    Cause you know huge amounts of guns prevent all sorts of violence, lol.
    Is that a new meme or is it and old one about keeping the peace? In this case, the sacred piece of private property.

  • As Out Blessed Mother said: more are sent to h*ll for s*xual sin than any other.

    All evil in the world, and I mean ALL of it, starts as shame over s*xual sin. All of your communist totalitarianism and mass m*rder fantasies begin with it.

    your shake is the natural result of doing the unnatural. you k*lling your soul by fornicating or worse leads you wide open for demons.

  • I would imagine going by French media that they don’t much enjoy being alive and they hate Catholics for being human whole they are walking, damned corpses.

    As for their immigration habits, they prefer the us, like most people do.

    projecting on me won’t help you.

  • The askenazi are actually the “kazars.” kind of half-russian, half-byzantine from the Caucasus mountain range. converted in the year 700AD.

    About 5% of all Jews are actually at all related to Biblical Israelites. If you want Biblical Israelites, you want non-nordic blonde or red-haired Catholics.

    I am not a zionist either, but calling Chesterton an antisemite for being one is absurd,

  • JohnDoe00

    Who, CoCo the 🤡? Lol. G’morning, Tus.

    Well, going back to Truthdig, CoCo’s game was to get lost in the “Progressive” crowd with his snarky Democratic party critiques. At first glance, it looked edgy enough for most not to notice. Who doesn’t despise the Dems – the lowest of the low-hanging hypocritical fruit? But as time went on, you began to see that the clown’s words were no less critical than anything on Fox News or Breitbart. And as with his pals Ort, Hayes, Eleusis etc., you started to see that his criticism of Democrats wasn’t based on a principled understanding of how capitalism actually works – rather it was based on the challenge to their individual entitlements. As leftists we don’t despise Dems for what they are or aren’t as capitalists. We’ve been pointing this out for decades and is hardly anything new. We despise Dems and Repubs for what as representatives of capital they’re willing to do to harm the working-class. The litmus test for leftist authenticity isn’t whether or not you vote for a Democrat – it’s the belief that economic change and the voting booth have anything at all in common. You don’t challenge the system by challenging Democrats but by challenging the system itself.

    So CoCo, now isolated from much of the foot traffic he enjoyed at TD, is left naked and exposed. And his “leftism?” We see it’s nothing more than any libertarian’s laundry list: Private property. Gun rights. Keep what’s mine etc. And of course, when added to the Covid conspiracy nonsense, all the anti-Demisms in the world can’t cover up what CoCo the 🤡 essentially stands for: himself.

  • TUSAgain

    Mornin’ Mr. Doe. Hoping you and the Mrs. are staying cool as August approaches 🙂

    As for CoCo the 🤡
    Very good analysis of him. Not as easy to hide….now that TD has shutdown.

    Seems the vermin slithered over to the Liz’s right wing (pretend we are left ish) saloon for a beer with their tired, boring and utterly self serving (let’s hear it for the “rugged” individuals here) remarks that are a souped up version of what is more clearly articulated at Breitbart….without the pretense. One might even view Breitbart as at least less full of itself, but I digress.

    He is with real friends but only if they celebrate freedom and liberty which involves some convoluted notion that wearing a facemask somehow renders them powerless.

    Well, so much for superheroes….unless we were to count the Buttsnuffler (TM) but then haha…we don’t count him since unlike CoCo the 🤡 who stands for himself….the ubermenschen isn’t sure what he stands for… unless the nutty professor okays the footnotes.

    Yeah, they are a real fun crowd.

    Great summation here 🙂 As leftists we don’t despise Dems for what they are or aren’t as capitalists. We’ve been pointing this out for decades and is hardly anything new. We despise Dems and Repubs for what as representatives of capital they’re willing to do to harm the working-class. The litmus test for leftist authenticity isn’t whether or not you vote for a Democrat – it’s the belief that economic change and the voting booth have anything at all in common. You don’t challenge the system by challenging Democrats but by challenging the system itself.

    Good to see you JD 🙂
    PS: I was sorry to learn that utuber Michael Brooks died at age 37 a few days ago. I didn’t always agree with him but I really liked him and he will be missed….sigh.

  • TUSAgain

    Gotta hand it to CoCo the 🤡 on that one…..his aim was to insult someone but he settled for everyone.

    Hope you are staying out of trouble up in KY 🙂

  • TUSAgain

    Ding, ding, ding….we have a winner with “sht4brains” LOL,

  • Collectivist

    But I’m staying IN ‘good’ trouble, Tus😉

  • Collectivist

    Two passages worth repeating:

    “We despise Dems and Repubs for what as representatives of capital they’re willing to do to harm the working-class. The litmus test for leftist authenticity isn’t whether or not you vote for a Democrat – it’s the belief that economic change and the voting booth have anything at all in common. . .”

    “. . .So CoCo, now isolated from much of the foot traffic he enjoyed at TD, is left naked and exposed. And his “leftism?” We see it’s nothing more than any libertarian’s laundry list: Private property. Gun rights. Keep what’s mine etc. And of course, when added to the Covid conspiracy nonsense, all the anti-Demisms in the world can’t cover up what CoCo the 🤡 essentially stands for: himself.”

  • Mensch59

    Calling someone an “anti-Semite” has become as useless as calling some a racist or a fascist or a right-winger or a feminazi or a reactionary or a conspiracy theorist or a TERF or some other label ad nauseum. The purpose of such name-calling is to end non-violent communication and to initiate violent communication.

  • ozarkmichael

    But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
    You aint gonna make it anyone anyhow….

  • ozarkmichael

    Buddying up with a Maoist, while pretending you opposition is Fascist…. priceless

  • A Maoist? Because he found a quote useful?

    You simply have no standing to criticize anyone else, Mike. What is “priceless” is that you imagine you do.

  • ozarkmichael

    Boycott? Digger is not even an actual business, so boycott makes no difference whatsoever. Boycotting a website that isnt financed at all is just so pedestrian, so precious, so bourgeois!

    It seems that your main goal is to protect the purity of your tribe. “Dont touch this.. dont read that…” Its puritanical and not in the least bit intellectual. Is this all that remains of the revolutionaries?

    Whatever happened to veiled threats of the future Red Terror?

  • Yes. But all of mine are “detected as spam – we are looking into it” and never get posted at all. I presume it is the downvote bot thingy that affected my disqus “rep” (note I show zero upvotes on my profile) and that I would need to be “whitelisted” by a moderator – which happens on a lot of sites.

  • ozarkmichael

    Quoting Mao? then you guys own Mao.

    And pretending to fight authoritarianism while quoting Mao.. that really is priceless.

  • Oh FFS. No one “owns” Mao. What a moronic comment.

    Hey – haven’t talked to you in awhile. What is your take on the Trillions handed to the banks and Trump’s cronies, Billions meant to protect small businesses going to the Catholic and other “Churches” for example – no strings attached??

    What is your position of the Federal Boarder patrol goons terrorizing people in Portland? How about their terrorizing immigrants around the entire country? All good?

    How about the millions who have lost their healthcare in a pandemic? Or the idea that ANYONE in the “richest country in the world” would have no healthcare or risk losing their home because of medical bills?? No biggy?

    What is your position on the wealth of Bezos as compared to the rest of the the working world barely able to get by but who did the work to build the guy’s fortune? A-OK?

  • Collectivist

    Lol

    O.k.
    What about ‘revolution?’
    No need for It, OM?

    “A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another.”

    Mao Tse-tung

  • Collectivist

    Are you fighting authoritarianism?
    (A rhetorical question😎)

  • Collectivist

    “It seems that your main goal is to protect the purity of your tribe. “Dont touch this.. dont read that…”

    Confused as ever, I see.

    You’re actually referring to your new haven: gravedigger.

    Clean your fking bifocals.

  • Collectivist

    Nice, new!

    He can’t/won’t answer ANY of that.

  • They guy is just hitting and running, C (a la “OMG a Mao quote”!!! The horror!!”).

    I have been down similar roads with him before. Seems like he has now reconciled with the Mensch. “Nuff said. :-/

  • Collectivist

    “I have been down similar roads with him before”

    Me too😐

  • ozarkmichael

    If you quote Mao approvingly, you own him

  • ozarkmichael

    While quoting Mao so approvingly, you sure arent fighting authoritarianism!

  • ozarkmichael

    LOL, he cant stop himself.

  • Collectivist

    Like I said . . .go back to your new klavern.

  • I didn’t quote him.

    Now as to my questions that you conveniently avoided… Lets get to that shall we? What side are YOU on, Mike?

  • ozarkmichael

    Your friends lovingly quote Mao.

    I pointed that out.

    You jumped me for doing so. Which is fine, you can defend your friends and how they quote Mao(possibly the world record holder for holding authoritarian power over the most people in history).

  • ozarkmichael

    As if you have the power to redefine reality for everyone else.

    Oh wait, you are an authoritarian. Thats what you DO.

  • ozarkmichael

    “put some muscle into them”?

    Any idea that requires muscle to be true just disqualified itself from being true.

  • Totally dishonest dodge, Mike. I am not talking about Mao. I am talking about YOU.

    Now… getting back to my questions…?

  • ozarkmichael

    a boycott? of a site that isnt monetized? LOL

    In fact, Collectivist, you are afraid that somebody in your little tribe might learn something that makes them realize just how authoritarian you are.

    Here is a hint: quote some more Chairman Mao… thats sure to help!

  • CoCoLuv9491

    The “plan” was to always have on-ready a militia of armed citizens that could oppose a tyrannical government, which appears to be the moment in time we are fast approaching. Maybe you’re OK with only the police, the military, and criminals possessing firearms. Many people are not. When you get the police, the military, and the criminals to turn in all their weapon, I’ll give up mine.

    Liberal hypocrites like you would be all in for a poor, black home-owner brandishing his gun if a gang of white supremacists marched by. Which goes to show it only matters who it is that is exercising their right to self-defense with you folks.

    I support everyone’s 2nd Amendment rights… including blacks, especially blacks. Including women, especially women. Including rich and poor.

  • ozarkmichael

    LOL, still here.

  • See? There ya go deliberately mischaracterizing what was said.

    If not for dishonesty, apparently you would have nothing, Mike. Thought you claimed to be a “Christian”?

  • ozarkmichael

    I was talking about how awful Mao was, and how he appeals to the authoritarian left… and you jumped me for it.

    What does Portland have to do with Mao?

    You need to explain why you defend people who approvingly quote authoritarians.

    Or explain why you guys think Mao is not authoritarian.

    You have my attention.

  • And still avoiding my little questions to you. IOW you are just hitting and running. However, lest you have forgotten what they are, here we go again.

    Hey – haven’t talked to you in awhile. What is your take on the Trillions handed to the banks and Trump’s cronies, Billions meant to protect worker jobs at small businesses going to the Catholic and other “Churches” for example – no strings attached??

    What is your position of the Federal Boarder patrol goons terrorizing people in Portland? How about their terrorizing immigrants around the entire country? All good?

    How about the millions who have lost their healthcare in a pandemic? Or the idea that ANYONE in the “richest country in the world” would have no healthcare or risk losing their home because of medical bills?? No biggy?

    What is your position on the wealth of Bezos as compared to the rest of the working class world barely able to get by but who did the work to build the guy’s fortune? A-OK?

    What say you, Mike? Time to call a spade a spade – or will you go with more obfuscation?

  • ozarkmichael

    You are saying that when Collectivist quotes Mao, thats “really great stuff” ?

    Man, you guys really do own Mao

  • ozarkmichael

    Correct me then. As opposed to putting “brains” into something, explain what is meant by “putting muscle” into it. Especially when it comes to the ‘revolution’ and ‘wisdom’ of Chairman Mao.

  • You are demanding that I defend a quote I did not post. Not going there.

    I am interested in talking about the current realities we are facing and asked you to come out and state your positions on them.

  • Mensch59

    Are you enjoying reading the posts of the members of The
    anti-Digger Society” and having an exchange of comments with ’em?

  • Regardless what you right wingers fear from the left, it is ONLY a battle of ideas we wage here.

    “Putting muscle” into the ideas is a metaphor for placing them in the context of real life experience. No one is going to jump out of your computer and assault you. However MAYBE you can be reached on a human level by reading of the experiences of others and the harm actually suffered by the capitalist juggernaut that has its boot on everyone’s neck. MAYBE. Far fetched to imagine it, but maybe.

    More likely you will continue to subscribe to the “poor deserves their poverty”.

    Are you “self made”, Mike?

  • CoCoLuv9491

    So all gun owners are “gun nuts,” and homophobic Christian fundamentalists? Gee, I’ll have to remind my gun-owning leftist friends of that. That could make them want to give up their firearms… nah, probably not.

    The 2nd Amendment was written to guarantee the populace could be armed in case there was ever gain a need to oppose tyranny again. I don”t know about you, but it looks to me like we’re approaching that need.

    Citizens of Japan and Taiwan live a much less violent society than the US. Probably because there’s less crime. Probably because there’s less income inequality. Probably because there’s less poverty. Probably because there’s less racial discrimination. Guns are not the cause of violence. They are tool for people to use in defense of violence. The overwhelming majority of gun owners never fire their weapon at another person, except rarely in self-defense. The media sensationalizes all gun violence, just as it sensationalizes everything else. A “triggered” public = outrage, fear, and hysteria = higher ratings = more advertisers = more income. Welcome to your capitalist system, where even the so-called “news media” is only in it for the money.

    If you lived in Afghanistan or Iraq, and weren’t armed, I’d say you’d be the fool, especially when occupier forces knock down citizens’ doors on the regular.

  • Mensch59

    What is your take on the Trillions handed to the banks and Trump’s cronies, Billions meant to protect worker jobs at small businesses going to the Catholic and other “Churches” for example – no strings attached??

    What is your position of the Federal Boarder patrol goons terrorizing people in Portland? How about their terrorizing immigrants around the entire country? All good?

    How about the millions who have lost their healthcare in a pandemic? Or the idea that ANYONE in the “richest country in the world” would have no healthcare or risk losing their home because of medical bills?? No biggy?

    What is your position on the wealth of Bezos as compared to the rest of the working class world barely able to get by but who did the work to build the guy’s fortune? A-OK?

    Typical imperialistic behavior by the sociopathic political class and ruling classes dominating the American political economy. What else is old news?

  • Mensch59

    Why not go ahead and defend Mao in this “battle of ideas” then?

  • ozarkmichael

    Sorta. They seem to think you and I agree about everything now. In fact we still disagree most of the time, just more amiably, and our discussions go deeper because of it.

  • ozarkmichael

    so if I asked you completely unrelated questions now, and you dont answer them, you would be hitting and running? sorry, no.

    Hitting and running is making an assertion and then pretending it never happened. I have asserted that Mao is an authoritarian, and that quoting Mao approvingly connect the poster to Mao.

    Your attack on me has to disprove my assertions. Since you made no effort, you are the one ‘hitting and running’.

  • ozarkmichael

    actually, the count of Mao quotes is now up to 3.

    I really doubt that he randomly found a Mao quote, or doesnt know that the guy is probably the biggest authoritarian in world history. How can you attack me for pointing that out?

    Will you insist that I answer questions about Portland because I pointed out that there are THREE Mao quotes?

    Why dont you just admit that your tribe owns Mao like a brother?

  • Complete and utter nonsense. Posting a quote doesn’t “connect” someone to the original author other than to the extent that they may or may not agree with that piece. If you wonder what C thinks of Mao, ask him.

    As I am simply not interested in discussing Mao.

    it is more interesting to discuss current events and the implications on living people – so I asked what your views are – and would like to see how these realities fit into your (authoritarian) right wing elitist world view.

  • Mensch59

    Yeah. You and I agree on attempting to have amiable conversations with those who don’t share the same ideas. How radical, eh?

  • ozarkmichael

    You are ok with quoting of Mao. Just admit it. Own it. Just for once be honest.

  • Wow. 3 quotes!! The horror. Gosh that must mean something sinister. LOL

    You do what you want, Mike.

  • Mensch59

    Just for once be honest.

    Harrumph! Good luck getting honesty from that ideologue.

  • ozarkmichael

    thanks. What I want is to denounce authoritarianism in all its forms, including Maoism. I want to warn about what it leads to.

    People who quote Mao approvingly are on the same level as people who quote Hitler approvingly.

    Ask yourself if supporting the Maoist argument is something you really want to be tied to. There is a way that you can be yourself without supporting those people.

  • Another stupidly dishonest post.

  • Mensch59

    Not really. You just don’t like having to defend the authoritarian, even totalitarian/dictatorial, side of Marxist socialism.
    Those of us who are libertarian or anarchistic socialists do not approve of the authoritarian, even totalitarian/dictatorial, side of Marxist socialism any more than we approve of authoritarian capitalism or anarcho-capitalism.

  • ozarkmichael

    No. At worst I am stupidly honest. or honestly stupid.

    For example, here I am being stupidly honest: I should not have said “Just for once be honest” to you, because that implies that you are always lying. I went too far. Sorry.

    Do you have anything nice to say? Can you at least admit that I am genuinely concerned about your proximity to people who think Mao is an authority for their political idealism?

    Go ahead and embrace Mao if thats where its at. Just come out and say it.

    I can then try to persuade you that it is unwise to the best of my honestly stupid ability.

    Is Mao an authority(or I should say “expert”) whose guidance about revolution is something you and your friends consult?

  • dmorista

    While I agree with you on some of your points it is just not true that “The 2nd Amendment was written to guarantee the populace could be armed in case there was ever again a need to oppose tyranny.” In fact, the 2nd Amendment was written to provide a force of armed conservative men, who would act as thugs and enforcers for the ruling class. The Founding Fathers were not all sage far-seeing prophets who could see the future. They were a combination of merchants, bankers, and planters, the last category also being slave owners. Their writings and legal frameworks reek of “fear of the mob”, the mob being working people.

    Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, Singapore, and China are better societies these days than is the U.S. They had their days when crime and injustice were the norm, now they are prosperous and well-organized. The U.S. was a better place than Taiwan or Japan a few decades ago; but that has all changed now, we see possibility of descent into chaos here. The question now, is will the U.S. survive the next few months?? It probably will, but there are big struggles ahead. There have been several parades of leftist carrying their own assault rifles, the U.S. begins to look more like Beirut or Baghdad and less like its former self. Like a friend of mine used go say “hind tit for a thousand years”.

  • ozarkmichael

    Funny. But I should not have said it because its a shallow exhortation wrapped around a deep accusation. It is an accusation of ‘always lying’ which is obviously untrue.

    Its the sort of bad habit which Digger has gradually weaned me off of, and here I am right back to it. No excuses. Totally my bad.

  • Mensch59

    Afaics…

    You could have stopped there. It ought to be as clear as the schozzes on our faces when we look in mirrors that you and I are never going to perceive politics the same way.
    You are not going to convert me and your “cyberactivism” for the sake of others reading your posts consists of your own in-group anyway who don’t need to change. For those outside of your clique, you targeting me simply looks like the behavior of a troll in a flame war.

    Undermine your credibility all you want. It’s no skin off my nose.

  • Mensch59

    Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. You are an intellectual authority on class traitors and bootlickers/lackeys/sycophants for the owners/bosses and private capital.

  • Mensch59

    I’m just as bad, if not worse.
    You are better at admitting fault.
    My arrogant pride way too often gets the best of me.
    “Out, damned spot! out, I say!”

  • NightriderXP1

    Someone must have really done a number on you. You must be Catholic. I was raised in a strict Baptist household where the virgin Marry isn’t worshiped. Your puritanical beliefs don’t make logical sense. The method designed for humans to multiply is by sex. Perhaps when gawd forced Mary to carry his child, he used artificial insemination, so that she remained “pure“. Of course he could have bypassed the entire “icky” thing simply by creating his son like he did with Adam and Eve. Clearly, that story was already warn out, so a virgin birth spiced up the story a bit…

    So if you’ve ever have sex with another human, it must be an awful experience for you. How many Hail Marrys do you have to say each time you have sex with another person? Do you consider masturbation sinful too? If not, you could opt for artificial insemination so that you never have to feel shame for performing a perfectly natural reproductive act…

    I really feel sorry for you…

  • Collectivist

    “At worst I am stupidly honest. or honestly stupid.”

    Personally I think it’s the latter.
    Always have.

  • Nylene13

    Just read a message from Sherlock-he said the storm was no big deal on Oahu.

    Can’t you grow Avocado Trees? Man do I miss my Avocado Trees.

    They grow like crazy in Puna.

  • Collectivist

    Defend gravedigger.

    Hmmm . . .Oh, I forgot.
    You do.

  • TUSAgain

    Sarah Vaughn….thank you, C!
    I’m hanging in there my friend

  • TUSAgain

    LOL

  • Mensch59

    The topic is Mao, not a small blogspot site.

  • Collectivist

    “No one is going to jump out of your computer and assault you”

    Even if he deserves it😉

  • Collectivist

    “If not for dishonesty, apparently you would have nothing, Mike. Thought you claimed to be a “Christian”?”

    Awesome!

  • ozarkmichael

    heh. but if I was on your side you would decide that I am a genius.

  • Collectivist

    I’d be dumber than you if I did so.

  • TUSAgain

    When I heard about the latest hurricane I thought of you, Chet. Was really glad to see that you will be safe. I am remembering the time I hung out with you…
    Stay well my friend.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    The revolution consisted of armed farmers and workers who came together as militias to fight the British. Their purpose for being armed was not to be thugs or defend slavery. They were armed for self-defense, being inhabitants in a new, mostly unsettled country. And it’s a damned good thing they were armed, or we’d be still a colony of the UK.

    Your revisionist spin on the 2nd Amendment is weak at best.

  • Jay Hansen

    “are are”? You sound like a seal.

  • Jay Hansen

    Whereas your revolution consists of scolding from the sidelines (and attending a few klan meetings on the sly).

  • oneski

    ozm’s a bored spoiled rotten ivy-leaguer (…princeton) scientist / research doctor that fled the ozarks because he got tired of getting his pansy-a$$ son of a petit bourgeois butt kicked every time he showed up at the gravel bar in his new pickup trucks. An utter disappointment for fleeing the hills, if not mistaken, he’s an accomplished end time evangelical who’s only interest is maintaining his generational wealth until humanity gets the comeuppance that will reward those that he left behind on those dirt roads his daddy sold pickax handles to.

    It’s not all bad, …his posting history can be perused – for now

  • Thanks for the research oneski!

    When such people virtue signal about their purported “Christian” beliefs, too often there is a complete disconnect with the antisocial positions they endorse.

    I’ll have a gander to see what else lurks in that post history – for giggles.

    Cheers. 🙂

  • ozarkmichael

    Being an authoritarian just makes you that way.

  • oneski

    This pos and basrov (or qpeg or whatever his handle is these days) need not worry about the future: or anyone else’s. ad hominems signal defeat almost always. The deserving exceptions have mastered their anonymity to support their trolling.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Pffffffffft…

    As if you know anything about me, or about anyone online.

    Employing ad hominem rather than attempting to refute my statement is a clear sign that you have nothing of value to offer.

  • Catholics have children, and we know how to raise them.

    you not only have no children but you m*rder the few you do.

    masturbation is a mortal sin, which is usually the source of most evil. not a single murderer or communist did not first start their devilry without sexual sin.

    you, pervert, are trying to damn others in your place by projection.

  • Jay Hansen

    Another Hector the Projector sphincts aloud. Excuse yourself.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    LOL. This one thinks he’s clever while he reveals how unimaginative, unintelligent, and uninformed he really is.

  • As Michael E Jones would say (not necessarily recommending him): “in the past an antisemite was someone who didn’t like Jews, but now it is someone who Jews don’t like.”

    feel free to substitute for any other “protected class.”

    Hillaire Belloc’s book “The Jews” where he predicted the shoa years before it happened is informative.

    Basically people need to let off steam against groups that frustrate them, usually by making fun of them, and preventing you from saying even the slightest cross word just makes people go mad.

    What would have prevented the camps ironically would have been letting people say I whatever they wanted about Jews. Violent/prejudiced language tends to prevent violence, not normalize it. The frustration will come out some way, so therefore censorship precedes all massacres.

  • ozarkmichael

    That seems to be your contribution to the discussion. As you said, ad hominems signal defeat.

  • Jay Hansen

    You wouldn’t know clever if it hit you with a two by four, and I wish it would, since stupid is not fixable.

  • oneski

    I’m eligible for the same redemption as you. And I’m a communist. So fo!

  • You couldn’t find a more honest and “real” person than oneski, Mike. No way does your post “defeat” what he said here or anywhere. Regardless of how you might wish it were true.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    You need to work on making your comebacks a little snappier, Jay. You’re losing the cleverness battle.

  • Southern

    Detected as spam we are looking into it is a auto reply, think you’re right about the whitelisting since the mods with administrative level are able to tick boxes from a variety of options including one where a comment from a selected account will always trigger moderation, I’don’t know about the effects of the downvotebot triggering spam.

    Do you still get upvote notifications?

  • Yes i see upvotes on my feed – and you can see them on induvidual comments. . But none show up on my profile.

    I was able to run my profile a year ago and at the time it registered 89,000 negative upvotes (i mean who knew you could get a negative upvote??). I presume the trend continues.

  • Southern

    I’ve noticed this phenomenon – you’re not the only one – find like minded people and perhaps start bombarding the disqus disqus forum several times a week ”politely”asking them to get this sorted.

  • Hey Southern, we have been doing it for a year or more.

    Disqus doesnt give a f.

    It is not a big deal except for sites with no apparent actual live mods like wsws. The pretense of premoderation is complete bs because there is no live person moderating.

    Many abanoneded their accounts and moved on. I am too fn stubborn to follow suit.

  • dreamjoehill

    Yours is the best interpretation for the “militia” verbiage that I’ve encountered. Is it original? If not point me to an elaboration.

    Guatemala in the late 70’s early 80″s? That’s interesting. I was campaigning in the US against US policy in Central America. It was very dangerous there then.

  • Mensch59

    That’s supposed to be logically argumentative?!?!
    My, oh, my! How the mighty have fallen!!

  • NightriderXP1

    What’s ironic is that Catholic women in my High School were the most promiscuous in school. Most Catholic women I knew loved to drink and have sex. They were a lot more fun at parties than Baptist women. Are you absolutely sure you’re not a Baptist???

    Did you ever grow hair on your palms? Someone really did a number on you. I doubt that you could ever enjoy sex since you believe that you would be committing a sin. That’s got to be a huge turnoff…

  • oneski

    The intention was a simple character assassination. Way off M59.

    Residing at the bottom is probably not conducive for being counted amongst the fallen…oh me oh my.

    I will reach out and state that it’s a bit creepy reading exchanges between a bushwhacker like you and dmorista. I don’t keep up with your pablum to often as a prefer soaking up useful stuff found on the boards – you know, similar to posts dmorista pens. I suspect the future will witness a rift during an exchange emanating from your unique ability to alienate posters, join forces with like reactionary revolutionary libertarians and your intentional, or otherwise, condescending communication skills.

    But, thanks for noticing!

  • Mensch59

    “You couldn’t find a more honest and “real” person than oneski, Mike.” ~ newestbeginning.
    Engaging in “character assassination” doesn’t accord with being honest and real. So I will reserve the term “fallen” as a comparison to what newest writes of you and what you write of yourself and your intention.

    A “bushwhacker”?!?! Whatever. More character assassination.

    I suspect the future will witness a rift during an exchange emanating from your unique ability to alienate posters, join forces with like reactionary revolutionary libertarians and your intentional, or otherwise, condescending communication skills.

    Your suspicion is noted, although it counts for nothing objective or evidentiary. As much as a man can know himself, I’m generally “condescending” to those who are disrespectful toward me. Those who respect me, it’s mutual.

  • Jay Hansen

    What battle? The cleverness from your direction adds up to bupkis.

  • oneski

    So sayeth mensch. Your judgements, accolades, word salad, reactionary tendency and reactionary references compliment your objective – identifying as the consummate liberal. Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over all the pieces, crap all over the board, and strut around the table looking victorious.

  • What you call “sex” is just Procreation. it is not your raping or masturbating or fornication fantasies.

    you aren’t the first person in my mentions to try to attack Catholic women even just in the past 12 hours. Odd. you must be possessed.

    you remind me of a number of things, damned one:
    1) every murderer in history, human or otherwise
    2) every liberal or devil worshiper
    3) a rapist who has never even met a women
    4) the communists of the Spanish civil war, in which young communists especially sought to rape/murder Nuns. so terrible was their evil that they tried exhuming bodies of Nuns to try to rape as well, which is what shocked Orwell out of his lifelong communism and fabianism.

    really, you are lonely, attacked by demons due to your dead soul, can only see hell when you close your eyes, and no woman would ever want anything to do to you or with you.

    you fantacize about women, in the most disgusting ways, like rapists do. Furious about what you can’t have because you have no Virtue and they do, you fantasize about how “dirty” they are in the hopes of your projecting your evil onto them in the hopes they become your “sex-slaves” somehow.

    There is a reason you have been discarded into demon bait. Can you guess why?

  • Collectivist

    Astute.

  • Collectivist

    Lol!!!

  • JohnDoe00

    “Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am…the pigeon is just going to knock over all the pieces…”
    Brilliant!

  • Mensch59

    Thanks for the additional character assassination.

  • Mensch59

    Not “Brilliant!”
    That internet meme/saying has been around for thirty years.

  • oneski

    …a rare occurrence. Plagiarized naturally. Perhaps hijacked from Francis of Assisi.

    m59 would engage in an argument with a dirty diaper if the possibility existed there’d be a chance at hopping in to wallow around: if for no other reason than to bask in the fragrance by association.

  • oneski

    Quite apropos – Better? Feel better?

    Time to move on mensch. My tail’s securely stowed in preparation for the next blog invasion of Mao references that threaten to change course for the 160, or some odd number of, nations that are caught up in protecting western civilization’s death grip on sanity.

  • dmorista

    It is my original synthesis, but composed of various facts I have read about in years past, that I cannot possibly dredge up as I have internalized them. Feel free to use it and develop it if you like. CCL9491 is such a weird and tenacious poster that it made me write something up. Watch for a post where I elaborate on the use of State Militias against working people. I have found 11 sources (in just a couple of cursory web searches, all CCL9491 is worth) about the use of State Militias, mostly from the Gilded Age period. They killed a lot of workers in service of the oligarchs of the day.

    I left Guatemala just before things got really bad and moved to Texas.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    The point, which you apparently missed, is that both whites and blacks have the right to be armed. Both rich and poor.

    You liberals love to apply double standards based on your identity politics preferences.

  • Jay Hansen

    I’m no stute. I’m a Paiute.

  • TUSAgain

    Lol oneski….you nailed it!

    Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over all the pieces, crap all over the board, and strut around the table
    looking victorious.

  • TUSAgain

    Whoops I did not see you post this.
    Woke up to see this perfect assessment by oneski. Don’t know oneski but it was indeed brilliant.

  • chetdude

    Thank you.

    We dodged another bullet this time with another unprecedented, fossil-fueled AGW enhanced hurricane that fortuitously moved a bit north of its predicted path and spared the islands most of the damage that could have occurred. But AGW continues to get worse, warming the ocean more, and we can expect more of these.

    I hope your health is improving too.

  • chetdude

    We’ve got 4 of them. Delicious Sharwils! No ka oi!

  • “i WANT TO DENOUNCE….” is a statement that is in itself authoritarian. You will have to find a different linguistic syntax.

  • You and I are real neighbors. Did you forget?

  • Nylene13

    Friends in upper Puna had the huge wild trees that grew the football sized ones. sigh.

  • TUSAgain

    Thanks Chet. Stay well!

  • NightriderXP1

    Trust me, you’re just a few up votes away from being in positive territory again. It’s only a matter of time before we get you back in the game… /s

    I was able to help @Julie G:disqus back into positive upvote territory. Then the attacks started again and she lost another 3000+ upvotes. But she’s back into positive territory again. So it is possible to get your upvote back into positive territory again if the attack has stopped. It would be nice if we could see where your count stands now…

  • I sure appreciate the effort – but it might take 4 lifetimes man – even if the bot stopped as i was negative 89000 upvotes last i saw and there is no reason to suspect the bot isnt continuing to erode it into infinity.

    No worries brother. Lets put our efforts into fighting the fascistsbwho doom everything good that is left in the world.

    Chin up man. We can put out shoulders into it and knock down the mfers.

  • NightriderXP1

    You may never see positive up votes on this account, but you never know. I wasn’t absolutely sure that anyone’s negative count could be erased until we succeeded with Julie’s account. I’m not losing sleep over this since it could be easily corrected by the Disqus developers at any time. But until then, it’s kind of nice to be able to help friends out whenever possible. I only upvote comments that I can agree with or where someone makes a really good argument even if I disagree with them…

    For the life of me, I can’t understand why the Disqus developers haven’t already restored everyone’s stolen upvote counts. I know how easy it would be to restore them so not doing so makes no logical sense, unless they just don’t care…

  • You are doing yeoman’s work on my behalf, Night.

    Thanks very much for your kindness.

  • Collectivist

    “How many Hail Marrys do you have to say each time you have sex with another person?”

    Lol

  • Interesting, damned incarnate, your post did not show up in my feed.

    The quote described you nicely. your attempt to hide from it by spouting off youtube nomenklatura like protestant heretics spit out edited “scripture” is amusing.

  • another post just randomly popping up in me feed days later.

    marx was a jobless man angry because he had to live his whole life off the teat of his friend.

    marx was also a fabian, and was simply a fall guy. when he outlived his usefulness, he was removed.

    As the old “comrades” like yourself said after “revolution”: “if only comrade stalin knew”

    comrade stalin is the perpetrator.

  • I don’t know if I responded to this already, a bunch of replies I never saw just showed up. Anyways: you are projecting (as all pagans do) in the hopes the Innocent will be damned in your place for what you have done.

    in this case, you accuse me of the ignorance you and toe forebearer had.

    I say “had” as they are already in hell and know exactly who killed them (their own side after they “outlived” usefulness).

  • Collectivist
  • No, you are just piling on rhetoric and hoping it stops your ears shut.

    So I ask once more:
    “What happens to ALL ‘comrades’ like you IMMEDIATELY after your ‘revolution’ is over.”

    this is a historical question, as THE SAME EXACT THING has happened to every one. Could not happen to a more deserving person than you, congratulations “tovarich.”

    I imagine they screamed marx’ bland writings with tears in their eyes while facing the firing squad too.

  • The post you are responding to explained what it is: but one of many tentacles of the coven.

    the one you fell for is meant to appeal to those suffering the capital sins of pride (delusion you have usurped Divine Will by wishful thinking), envy (believing the authority of others belongs to you), anger (preoccupation with revenge), sloth (spiritual laziness or ignorance), greed (believing the possessions of others belongs to you), gluttony (trying to replace God in your life with addiction), lust (using people as objects).

    you exemplify all 7 of the capital sins, and they are gateways to all evil and all mortal sins.

    your sins That Cry To Heaven For Vengance are another story.

  • either you are honestly a bot who just replies with canned, totally non-topical statements.

    or you are trying to stop yourself from reading what I am saying by responding with nonsense, and claim that hasty replies mark my posts as “already responded to” despite never reading or actually responding.

  • either you are a bot

    or you do an old twitter tactic: respond with gibberish so you mentally mark my post as “red and responded to” even if you did neither.

  • You sure have a vivid imagination Teapot person. You an incel by any chance?

  • Mensch59

    Are you stating unequivocally that citizens ought not have the right to keep and bear pistols, shotguns & rifles because only governments have the legitimate power to utilize firearms?
    If not, how do you warrant governments disarming their subjects/citizens? Why ought nation-states have that kind of power over the sovereign rights of that entity, i.e. the people, which grants legitimacy to the nation-state?

  • larrymotuz

    I regret that your ‘Christianity’ excludes Christians.

  • JohnDoe00

    One of the Diversity Diggers, Herman Cain has passed. It’s a truly sad day for all, C. Forget John Lewis. Cain just may be the martyr our brother and sister Diggers have been looking for.

    I can almost hear Maxwell now, “He died of cancer – not Covid. An oppressive mask wouldn’t have saved him.”

  • Mensch59

    Sounds like someone has an obsession with good ol’ Maxwell.

  • Mensch59

    … why are most all of the Digger “sources” right-wing reactionaries – at best?

    Written by a moronic ideologue who thinks that CJ Hopkins and Michael Hudson are right-wing reactionaries. Tell you what, sport. Instead of being a craven poltroon, reply to this post with a link to something you approve of — which I presume means that your “source” is a contemporary leftist revolutionary writing for today’s audience about today’s social issues — and I’ll put it up for discussion. Do you think that you could do that?

  • you mean you honestly think your following of the crossless anti-christ and his communist christless cross makes you “Christian?”

    A sadly common meme among your kind.

  • poverty is a plague upon mankind as a test, kind of like how sodomy ONLY pops up near the end of a pagan civilization.

    Trump has money from work and from family.

    you a myopic, self-centered greed made a joke by laziness.

  • larrymotuz

    What’re you talking about? The only crossless ‘antichrist’ is the one who has put your entire nation on his cross of vengeance.

  • dmorista

    No, no I most certainly am not. The use of armed force to protect oneself, one’s family and home, and in the end one’s class and community, is an integral part of the struggle to remove the monsters, who now run things, from power and their positions of great wealth. But if is not a relatively small part of the struggle we will be doomed to domination by yet another gaggle of war criminals and deviants.

    I don’t find the right of governments to use armed force to be particularly persuasive either. I have always admired José Figueres Ferrer, the President of Costa Rica who abolished the Costa Rican military on Dec. 1, 1948. He said, in so many words, just what does Costa Rica need an army for anyways? JFK wanted to demilitarize the entire planet, including the U.S. by gradually disarming. That would have maintained the balance of power but would have freed up huge amounts of resources for beneficial social uses. He discussed that in his famous American University commencement speech in 1963, in less than 6 months he was dead. The stakes for militarism at the level of power occupied by the U.S. was much more dangerous to the plutocrats and oligarchs than that of Costa Rica.

  • Hadley Browning

    Herman Cain signed his life away to Trump, and Trump tweets his praise to the next pizzeria that will benefit him.

  • Mensch59

    I’m all for the larger struggles to both “demilitarize the entire planet” and to “remove the monsters, who now run things, from power and their positions of great wealth.”
    I simply don’t see a visible entity capable of doing it.
    I want to have faith/trust/confidence/belief in “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, organized citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”
    However, I must also admit that my faith is weak & fragile.
    Maybe there are invisible historical and natural forces which will both “demilitarize the entire planet” and “remove the monsters, who now run things, from power and their positions of great wealth.” I don’t have any trust in the masses and my trust is weak toward an intelligent citizenry.

  • I assume this has sounded more clever in your head, evil one.

    the antichrist is whom you serve, and desperately so. your communism being the mere dry run for babylon.

  • Collectivist

    Lol.

    Fk Cain.

  • Collectivist

    Try this:

    Fk you.

  • what will you say to the guillotine?

    you know, you are possibly the most calm marxist I have ever met; not to say you are smart but that you have yet to fly off the handle in a murderous rage like every other one I met.

    the guillotine won’t care though. Try Repenting.

  • So poverty has nothing to do with the capitalist economic system that has its boot on the neck of humanity. The fact that horrifically abused garment workers in Pakistan for example, wait months for below subsistence wages – that may never come so people like you can buy cheap clothes? It’s God’s will, eh? Your God must be a true Monster.

    Trump has never “worked” a day in his lazy pathetic life. Whatever wealth he has came not from his own hand, but those of others who DO go to work.

    Tell me. Is ignorance truly blissful, Potty?

  • Good thoughts Gary but there will never, ever be a total demilitarized of this planet nor lack of monsters who gain control of the people… Not enough good people bother to vote where elections are held and money always rules anyway and all too often those with the gold put the evil ones in power.

    Remember the “Golden Rule”… Them who has the gold, makes the rules.

    Even with a rebellion like what happened in Russia, China, France, the first 13 colonies, Cuba and other such takeovers by the People for the People, it ended up with the rich ruling the sheep… Sorta funny too, sheepherders are always kind people… We really ain’t sheep. 🙂

  • Mensch59

    As long as social hierarchical power relations exist and as long as social hierarchical power structures exist, those who have the money/gold/wealth will have the power.

    I really don’t like the term “sheeple” as a synonym for the (common) people, any more than I like to think of those in power as sheepherders.

  • Me too.

  • NightriderXP1

    We’re all in this together…

  • Meepestos

    Unfortunately some don’t see it that way.

  • HI… It is ALL about money.

    JFK was in the beginning process of pulling all of our special forces out of Vietnam and stopping all military assistance to South Vietnam… He was murdered.

    Soon after one of our US Navy ships “was attacked” by the Viet Cong and the Vietnam War began with the US in charge of it… A lot of money was made by a few.

    I do not believe for one second that demilitarization of the world is possible… If only one country has atomic weapons, it will be impossible and there will always be more than one who will refuse to put their atomic weapons away.

    There is always fear or hatred, jealousy, greed that will insure some rulers will fear another country or other countries and will build a military for National Defense.

    Adolph started his war because of he was actually insane with power and hatred of the Jews… He was going to rule the world and be a benevolent ruler… He made a pact with Stalin so the Russians would not interfere with his plans.

    Japan started their war over money… They didn’t wish to pay for minerals and fuel instead of fair trade, so they stole it…They took it, first with Korea and then on to China and SE Asia and again, the ruler, Tojo was insane with power, he was going to rule the world…. The Emperor was a Figurehead, Tojo was the boss.

    If England, France, Canada, Australia had not fought Germany and allowed Adolph to have his way, he very well may have ruled the world… Eventually only the “Master” race would have lived.

    There will always be wars, they began in the stone age and have never ceased… More than 300 wars have been fought over the control of the SE Asia pepper plantations… The LOVE of money is the root of ALL evil.

  • NightriderXP1

    My focus in that comment was on my group of friends. We’re fighting the moral fight…

  • Meepestos

    Keep up the good fight!

  • Appreciate the connection man

    Seems the only way to function – to support people. Our comrades. Our friends. Fellow human beings.

    What the hell is is there?

  • You completely ignored Antinio’s post in the quest to promote your dumb talking points.

    Transparent and stupid. Dare insay clownish? 😷🐼🤡

  • you are as marxist as they come, fueled by greed and tall poppy syndrome.

    you dare not question your devilry, thinking tha will make them eat you last.

  • there is your mask falling, damned one. like the guillotine on the “comrades.”

    hitler was an open socialist as much as he was a devil worshiper: meaning in totality.

    unless you think a welfare state that banned animal vivisection to push human experimentation and mass murder, who allows a marked ONLY of the government directly approved of it.. is somehow not par-excellence socialism.

    jews were so intrinsic to the communists, that they openly praised hitler before operation barbossa, and the camps were already running then (many have your “ends justify the means” evil). so desperate was it, that a cause of divorce amongst the Israelis was finding out your spouse didn’t support stalin (in the 1970’s!).

    The Church, of course, was the only Substantive enemy to both types of mass murdering marxists: nazis (socialists) and communists. The Church destroyed both easily.

    you pick your articles like you pick your rhetoric: based on whatever lie you can use to push “world revolution.”

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Coming from a completely uninformed, anti-gun ideologue, I consider the source.

    Maybe stick to topics of which you have some experience and knowledge – like how throw a cocktail party for your bourgeois equestrian friends.

  • No, poverty existed far prior to the people you are jealous of, feel/are inferior to, and whom you think their authority/possessions are more rightfully yours.

    you invoke “economic justice,” in which you claim anyone you feel the capital sin of greed towards is somehow commiting a capital crime. “social justice” is the same, but the capital sin of envy.

    all of the above extends from a number of things of yours:
    1) your capital sin of pride (delusion you have “usurped” Divine Will by wishful thinking) that even you know is absurd needs to be constantly reaffirmed or you kill yourself.
    2) your shame over sin due to ambition + laziness leads you to think murdering Catholics will somehow make your shame over sin go away (which immediately preceded suicide of the reprobate)
    3) you think you will somehow achieve “godhood” by pretending to “overthrow” God’s order.

    like with marx’ own admission before he died and went to hell for all Eternity, he knew his whole life’s work was to try to attack God only to make mankind go extinct in honor of the devil whom he served and was possessed by.

    so I suppose
    4) your demonic possession.

    just one sin That Cries To Heaven For Vengeance incurs special punishment in hell worse than all else combined, it also incurs a temporal blood price that MUST be paid even if you Repent, AND you get hounded by a demon that tries to make you commit suicide before you can Repent.

    I don’t want to know how many billions you just incurred in that one post of blasphemy and denying man his fair wage. you will find out the hard way though.

    trump not only worked up multiple businesses, he did so from bankruptcy many times. you might put into your life the amount of work he puts in in one day, but he’s motivated and isn’t enervated by total greed and demons.

    So, really , you and your friend @disqus_D0gqaX8WRE:disqus are claiming to be “economic” motivated, but really are just satanic motivated, ad are only that way because your demon wants you to beg to be struck down.

    you are a pawn, “comrade.”

    what happens to EVERY SINGLE “COMRADE” AFTER YOUR “REVOLUTION” IS OVER?

    same thing happens EVERY TIME, and no it isn’t “he will be like gods.” you were lied to.

  • Collectivist

    You post like an idiot.

  • Sadly, because I know the past of those like you, I know your personal future.

    “if only comrade stalin knew,” right?

  • Collectivist

    Wrong.

  • Collectivist

    “you are as marxist as they come”

    Flattery will get you nowhere.

  • they thought “it wasn’t real communism” also.

  • you responded to this already, gibbering one.

  • Collectivist

    “what happens . . .AFTER YOUR “REVOLUTION” IS OVER?”

    Probably nothing you’ll like😎

  • the question was:
    “you are a pawn, “comrade.”

    what happens to EVERY SINGLE “COMRADE” AFTER YOUR “REVOLUTION” IS OVER?

    same thing happens EVERY TIME, and no it isn’t “ye will be like gods.” you were lied to.”

    with hints included.

    the answer, as I have been alluding to, is you face the guillotine and be “liquidated” for the crime of being stupid enough to believe the dictator (so you will be stupid enough to believe the next).

    you digging graves for me (or anyone, really) leads to you falling in.

    I kill communists, so you threatening then coming after me is something. Not like your leadership kills you though.

  • Collectivist

    “I kill communists”

    🤣

  • Well, maybe. they aren’t human, so it’s ok.

    Tell me, have you ever heard of the life of Rafał Gan-Ganowicz, who killed over 5000 communist spies and soldiers (even spetsnaz and gru) before he was 30-40 or so?

    How about the Miracle when The Blessed Virgin choked the entire invading comminist army into Poland, then threw them back into Russia? happened in 1921, directly lead to stalin k*lling lenin and taking over.

  • Collectivist

    Go back to Disneyland.

  • I am not into pedophila, so no.

    is this code for something?

  • Collectivist

    You’re one comment away from being blocked.

  • Ok, The Miracle is called “The Miracle of Vistula.”

    Happened in 1920 or so.

  • Also, I haven’t killed any humans, don’t worry.

    killing real-life demons on the other hand…

  • Mensch59

    So, do you think that promoting NFAC (a black militia) is a “dumb talking point”?

  • Collectivist

    Your time is running out.

  • The Miracle of Vistula, something you have to look forward to a redux of.

    your threats are on yourself alone. I know who I am already, you do not.

  • Haven’t taken a a position on the group.

  • Thanks man. 🙂

  • You sure fling a lot of nutty word salad around that has a lot of made up quackery and no bearing on material reality, Potty.

    Funny you deny “men” their fair wage and then accuse others of your own crime.

    Yeah Trump “worked up” numerous businesses… However note that he has never actually “made” anything in his life, nor broke a sweat producing value. The pathetic grifter wouldn’t know the business end of a shovel from the other, nor how to drive a nail to save his life. Interesting that an adulterer and fascist thief like Trump would be so admired and idolized by someone who pretends to be “Christian”, eh? What is it the gold toilet you covet, Potty?

    You sure you aren’t a sock for Mensch59? LoL

  • once more, your morivations are:
    1) your capital sin of pride (delusion you have “usurped” Divine Will by wishful thinking), that even you know is absurd, needs to be constantly reaffirmed or you kill yourself.
    2) your shame over sin due to ambition + laziness leads you to think murdering Catholics will somehow make your shame over sin go away (which immediately precedes suicide of the reprobate)
    3) you think you will somehow achieve “godhood” by pretending to “overthrow” God’s order.
    4) demonic possession

    your greed fixation just seeks to hide your devil worship, which is just you begging to be struck down (or at least your demon pushing you to it)

    at no point are you aware of what is going on, especially what you are doing.

    your other assumptions of materialism, nihilism, existentialism, et al. are ridiculous.

    you seem to not realize hell begins on earth and that Eternity is far longer than the chance God has given you here to Repent. That is why you were born here instead of directly in hell.

    I would recommend you take it, but there is always the possibility of the reprobate mind being so solid you cannot overcome it. Not to say other couldn’t overcome it, but it only needs to be terrible enough for you to not overcome it.

    I also have no idea if you know what Repenting even is, and I am entirely sure you do not.

    Do you know what Contrition is, by any chance? We (not including you) can start there,

    you certainly don’t want to think about what happens to “comrades” after “revolution” is over.

  • Mensch59

    You don’t get to dictate what proper subject matter is and isn’t.

  • Mensch59

    “The use of armed force to protect oneself, one’s family and home, and in the end one’s class and community, is an integral part of the struggle to remove the monsters, who now run things, from power and their positions of great wealth.” ~ dmorista

    Are you willing to take a position on that statement?

  • Talk about a patriarchal authoritarian position. Of course I get to decide what discussions I am willing to enter into and the terms of such.

  • Mensch59

    Nope. Way to move the goalposts… again. Your decision regarding what discussions you are willing to enter into and the terms of such has precisely nothing to do with you dictating to others “Not the subject”, editing your post from first having read “I haven’t taken a position on that subject”.

    Please try not to lie about your authoritarian attitude — which attitude has precisely nothing to do with one’s biological sex or patriarchy.

  • LOL… says the patriarchal authoritarian who is still demanding entitlement to the time of others. ((rolling eyes))

  • Mensch59

    I’m “demanding your time and the time of others”?!?! How perfectly ludicrous & insane! How can I possibly “demand” as some sort of “patriarchal authoritarian” that you pay the least bit of attention to anything I post to you. Block me. Ignore it. Don’t reply. I. Don’t. Care. How. Delusional. People. Treat. What. I. Write. To. Them.
    Just bugger off already, nutter.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    It’s the truth. But, of course, coming from someone like you who isn’t curious about facts and statistics when it comes to 2nd Amendment issues, it’s not surprising that you are proud to display your ignorance.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Translation: I refuse to discuss topics that reveal my cognitive dissonance/ignorance when it comes to the 2nd Amendment and gun owners.

  • Mensch59

    That’s projection on your part.
    Idiots like you seem to think that your feces doesn’t stink.

  • Mensch59

    Your brains have turned into ideological mush.
    A firearm is not “private” property. It’s personal property.
    That’s the main problem with you (so-called, but ultimately fake) “Marxists” who feel like it’s your god-given entitlement to make others dispose of their property. You petty dictators cannot even distinguish private property from personal property.

    “The use of armed force to protect oneself, one’s family and home, and in the end one’s class and community, is an integral part of the struggle to remove the monsters, who now run things, from power and their positions of great wealth.” ~ dmorista

    Why not argue with dmorista?

  • No. It means that I am not going to let patriarchal authoritarians dictate what I will talk about.

  • Mensch59

    She is “proud to display her ignorance”.
    Yep.
    Great summation.

  • V4V

    However, having examined Fauna & Flora’s, and Elizabeth Hayes’commentary (and I do regret, having not taken heed much earlier to your astute observations😎 about her )*
    I’ve come to think that they are ideological rightwingers, with a real mission: STOP the left

    -exactly

    Furthermore, I challenge anyone to find a single article that is critical of Trump on their sewer hole, libertarian, anti-left website. You can find articles denouncing Biden, blacks, and the protests but none that I can find denouncing Trump. The Diggers true colors come out again.

    Here is one of my favorite Diggers, the tinfoil-hatted, reactionary, religious-right David Shultz:

    David Schultz katherine • a month ago • edited
    Personally I don’t think they will go back to Covid for the October surprise. I’m predicting something really big like a Soros sponsored mass shooting or a big disaster to close the election. Frankly I was relieved to find that the Kewaunee nuclear facility has been closed. A big radio active release over the Great Lakes would be perfect for handing the election to Biden.

  • Mensch59

    She limits her fighting with those who she perceives as ideological “enemies”, much like @disqus_D0gqaX8WRE:disqus. When one of her perceived “friends” makes a point of agreeing with you? Crickets.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Awwww, sweetie! Are you being VICTIMIZED by patriarchal, authoritarian demands AGAIN? LOL you LOLer. You faux radical rich btches are the funniest ones.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    He seemed like a cool enough guy until he got in tight with the M&U gang. Now he’s into emulating morons like JohnDoe00.

  • Mensch59

    I’ll never figure these NLOMists* out.
    *Neo Liberals Ostensibly Marxist as differentiated from LOLers.

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    Pretty much the same thing.

  • Julie G

    I check every couple days, and they haven’t started declining again. Yet…
    Can you help me figure out who was down-voting some of my comments on Newsblender yesterday and today? I am wondering if I made someone mad. Hardly anyone down votes there unless it’s a fat-thumb fumble. On the other hand, ever since I commented on that old Disqus blog about how to hide your downvotes, for about a month, random people upvote the comment. I suppose some could then go to my comment history and not like what I say unrelated to Disqus developers…

  • NightriderXP1

    It appears that the person down voting you is my new stalker that I picked up today: sojourner2018. (S)He also hangs out at The Gateway Pundit, Deadbart, and The Federalist. This is the type of personality that is triggered quite easily so the most innocent comment you could submit could have gotten its attention. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over this troll…

  • Mensch59

    Why so hostile?

    I don’t like liars with convictions.
    “The Enemies of Truth. — Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.” ~ Friedrich Nietzsche, Human, All Too Human (aphorism 483)

    There is another poster I corresponded with today – he reminds me of you – although he is far more “open” about his feeling of entitlement.

    Liar. I have an open profile. “You are accused of racism Mr. Closed Posting History KKK dude, when you promote far right racist memes like you do here” (newestbeginning).

    Your usual claptrap of “racist” and “far right” — as if this is an excuse for rational argument — is all about your “feeling of entitlement”. Your self-deception knows no bounds. Carry on.

  • Mensch59

    You dictating who is a “patriarchal authoritarian” is much like a Hitlerite dictating who is a member of the untermenschen.

  • Yikes…. With one of the most obvious and open white nationalist posters I have seen online, you STILL deny it is a thing…. Wow. Delusion runs deep with you.

    I didn’t say anything about your profile. I spoke of your expectation of entitlement which is reminiscent of that which is more openly displayed by the words from that WN poster.

    If you can’t see that THAT guy is a racist, then you are completely impervious to an understanding of what the word means.

  • Other terms you don’t seem to understand.

  • “A lie unanswered becomes the truth” ~Thomas Jefferson~

  • NightriderXP1

    If someone down votes me, I return the favor whenever possible. My new stalker is the same troll down voting you. For now, its Disqus profile is public, so you could down vote all of its comments if you wanted to. Usually they get the message if you down vote them one for one for everyone they give you. If you’re attacked by a stupid stalker who leaves their Disqus profile open to the public, all of your friends can get in on the fun…

  • Mensch59

    I understand sexists throwing out the term “patriarchal” in order to unnecessarily insert sexism into a discussion and in order to elevate sexist tensions and in order to wreck threads and in order to apply the self-serving cognitive bias of illusory (moral-ethical) superiority.

    I understand that the authoritarian attitude doesn’t depend on one’s biological sex.

  • Mensch59

    There you go with that lying thing you have going on in you and with you.
    I’ve never denied that white nationalism is a “thing”, i.e. a social phenomenon.
    Just like I’ve never denied that lying is a “thing”, i.e. a social phenomenon.
    I’ve never denied that racism or sexism or classism are “things”, i.e. social phenomena.
    It’s when you idiots who used to post at the (sunsetted) Meaning & Understanding Disqus channel compare me to being like an overt sexist or racist, that I’m not going to accept your false accusations as valid.

    But when crazy liars like you falsely accuse someone like @elizabeth_hayes:disqus of being a white nationalist, I’m not going to accept the false accusation of a nutty gaslighter as being valid.
    There are limits on assuming that someone has a valid perspective on another person.

  • Mensch59

    1 Peter 3:15-16 — “But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.”

  • Collectivist

    Lol

  • Collectivist

    Afaics, you understand very little politically but are too arrogant to recognize your ignorance.

    Compound that with your association with denialists and conspiracy theorists and you have: a complete imbecile claiming, like Trump, to be a “stable genius”

  • Mensch59

    If I remind you of that racist, FullBloodedWhiteMale, then you remind me of a Hitlerite believing herself to be superior to the untermenschen. See how that works? We can trade insults until hell freezes over.

  • “sexist tensions”… in your dreams man. Geez… LOL

    Nah, apparently I wasn’t clear. You are demanding the prerogative to set the terms of all discourse. You want to decide who talks about what and demean people who want to discuss other topics than those you dictate or who simply don’t want to discuss anything with you at all.

    That is patriarchal, authoritarian and condescending – regardless of your gender.

  • I am not interested in trading insults with you Mensch, nor talking to you about anything at all at this point. That ship sailed long ago.

    There is simply no possibility of any discussion whatsoever between us. Telling you this straight up is a courtesy rather than simply blocking you without a word.

    You can have the last word.

  • Mensch59

    I trust my ability to understand politics more than I trust you ability to understand politics.
    It’s called “self-esteem” and trusting those who are trustworthy.
    The little clique you belong to doesn’t consist of trustworthy individuals.

  • Mensch59

    And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: “Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness…”

  • Mensch59

    My previous comment to you went into “pending” because I linked to a Philip Zimbardo TED talk.
    It might take a few hours for it to post.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    No reply is necessary to your cherry-picked anti-gun screeds. Wikipedia and Britannica? Really?

    You anti-2nd Amendment folks are welcome to spin way. There are approximately 145,000,000 Americans, left, right, and center, who disagree.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Can you direct/link me to that quote from dmorista? It would be most useful, as he/she/it has since morphed into a rabid anti-gun-2nd Amendment spin doctor.

  • dmorista

    So don’t reply, that is largely because you cannot refute what I wrote. I hardly cherry-picked the sources, I did about 3 short web searches of 5 – 10 minutes apiece, and that is what came up. You, frankly, are not worth any more effort than that. Even the erroneous figure, that you keep using of 145,000,000 gun owners, is a “gun-nut” / armaments industry propaganda and disinformation meme. Here, from another 10 minutes of work, are the facts on that (that I had meant to include in that post, but forgot I guess).

    Gun ownership in the U.S. is certainly no higher than 25% of the population and perhaps less; and 3% of the U.S. population owns 50% of the guns. That 3% includes many of the “mass shooters” (another almost uniquely “American phenomenon”) who have killed people in horrific events, extremely rare in better countries, that seem to occur more than once a week in this profoundly sick society. (See, “Three percent of the population own half of the civilian guns in the US”, Oct 6, 2017, Youyou Zhou, Quartz, at : “The gun numbers: just 3% of American adults own a collective 133m firearms”, Nov 15, 2017, Lois Beckett, The Guardian, at : and “Americans vastly overestimate the number of gun owners”, May 7, 2018, Mark Joslyn & Donald P. Haider-Markel, Washington Post, at ). These are just a few of the many articles about this situation. 25% of the U.S. population would be around 80 million, large but barely more than half the figure you keep using (without so much as a source, be it Wikipedia or the NRA, or maybe a message from Charlton Heston in the great beyond). And the actual level of gun ownership could easily be lower than 25%, basically nobody knows and surveys are the only way to try to figure it out.

    Gun ownership is highest in places where there is still more, at least somewhat wild country, and also in the most retrograde socially backward places that right-wingers control politically; and lowest in more highly urbanized states. So we see that, according to surveys done by Pew originally, Alaska has the highest gun ownership rate (we can picture Sarah Palin flying around in a chartered helicopter shooting wolves with an assault rifle, while she keeps an eye on Russia for us, from the helicopter or from her front porch). Such places as Arkansas, Wyoming, Idaho, Alabama, Mississippi, and South Carolina (about which a member of the South Carolina state legislature in 1861 quipped “Too small to be a country too large to be an insane asylum”) are included in the top 15 in percentage of the population owning a gun. We might note that gun ownership in the U.S. is strongly skewed to the right-wing; who cannot persuade the majority of the population to accept their extremist views (despite the expenditure of billions upon billions of dollars in the most intense propaganda and disinformation campaign in human history), and must use a combination force and coercion along with their propaganda and disinformation operations, to force their agenda on the rest of the population: both historically and currently. The “gun-nuts” are very useful to the ruling class in this role that includes vigilantes and crazed mass murderers. (See, “Gun Ownership By State 2020”, World Population Review, at )

    I note that there were a number of articles about gun ownership; that came out after the slaughter of high school students at Sandy Hook, Connecticut in 2012, and in Parkland, Florida back in 2018. I have always known that the elites, who despise and mock those in the population who actually send their children to public schools, even good quality public schools like those in Sandy Hook and Parkland (both comfortable upper middle class communities). Those elites would sing a very different tune about the sacred “second amendment”, if a couple of mass shootings took place at Groton, Andover, Choate, Cranbrook Academy, or some similar places. If some crazed mass killer shot 20 or 30 of upper crust prep school students (who attend schools with elaborate and very expensive security arrangements), rather than another passel of inconsequential middle class or working class students, the whole logjam surrounding gun control would end very quickly. The time, when “second amendment gun-nuts” were useful to the ruling class, would end abruptly; and heavily armed police would be knocking on your very own door and confiscating your assault rifle within weeks. You would be shown where real power lies and your real position in the socioeconomic hierarchy. But of course this is very unlikely, the hoi paloi like you are allowed to parade around with your guns; but the elites are not subjected to these demonstrations or to the bulk of the consequences of deranged people obtaining guns. They live behind elaborate and expensive security at all times; it is another sure sign of the decline of this society that the rich and the near-rich all hide now in “gated communities”, exclusive pent-houses in expensive high rise buildings, off shore in their yachts, and in their Southern Hemisphere hideaways. Not for them the chaos that could break out here; that they leave to dupes like you.

    So why don’t you get back to me with some examples of when “state militias”, or their successors the National Guard, even once intervened in favor of the strikers or protesters somewhere (you won’t, of course, because the armed dupes of the ruling class never were/are used that way). Maybe you can produce examples of some faster shooting 1792 firearms (actually a good archer was still more deadly than a musketman back in those days).

  • dmorista

    I just wanted to respond belatedly to this fine post. The flurry of posts, replies, ripostes, and attacks caused me to not respond to your reasonable, well written, and insightful statements here. Thank you. Yes there is plenty of evidence that the rich, while perhaps not being quite as rich as they would be in an unregulated dog-eat-dog capitalist society, are indeed also better off in a more just more equitable society. The U.S. achieved some measure of that during the 1940s – 1970s but the greed of the rulers and the exigiencies of running their mighty and evil empire derailed that progress. The Europeans were clever enough to institute strong social democracies during the Post WW 2 period, that have served them very well indeed.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Wow. That post you directed me to is rational and sensible concerning the 2nd Amendment. I wonder what caused dmorista to turn 180º on the topic? To fit in with the rest of the liberal anti-gunners?

    I have read other posts by dmorista, not concerning gun ownership, that I thought reasonable, well considered, and leftist. I certainly don’t lump him in with the SteelPirate/JohnDoe/Collectivist cult. But it’s interesting that he jumps in to back their anti-gun stance. Maybe he/she/it is just looking for love (in all the wrong places).

  • Mensch59

    He’s definitely neither liberal nor anti gun ownership.
    I’d have to review this thread to see what caused the two of you to start butting heads.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Dmorista seems to be very stuck on defending the idea that the McCloskeys are irrational, right-wing gun nuts for brandishing firearms when protesters invaded their gated community, and that they deserve to be convicted as felons. Even to the point, that he is now labeling the 2nd Amendment as some racist ploy by the framers of the Constitution to keep slaves in their place, rather than guaranteeing the right of citizens to be armed in order to protect and ensure their freedom. This position I find to be irrational.

  • Mensch59

    I can see the validity of both of your perspectives. I posted a link to where the argument started, but it’s still in pending.
    I’m not going to rush to the defense of the McCloskey’s because it makes sense to me that they ought to have known that the protesters were en route to the mayor’s house and it doesn’t really make sense to me that they felt endangered. But i’m not going to condemn them either because I try to uphold the principle of presumed innocence in my own mind. I have mixed feelings because I generally have a pretty jaundiced view of people in general, but that’s my problem.

    I’ve read arguments about state militias being necessary for the enforcement of slavery. I think it’s a complicated and nuanced issue, but not an overly one as to constitute a wicked problem.

    I agree with your bottom lines. The individual’s right to keep and bear firearms is constitutionally protected and will probably stay constitutionally protected as long as the USA exists. A well armed citizenry is less servile to the state than a population who have allowed their government to disarm them.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    “The individual’s right to keep and bear firearms is constitutionally protected and will probably stay constitutionally protected as long as the USA exists. A well armed citizenry is less servile to the state than a population who have allowed their government to disarm them.”

    That!

  • rat doctor

    According to a 2019 Gallup poll, 30% of U.S. adults say they own a gun.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    “The use of armed force to protect oneself, one’s family and home, and in the end one’s class and community, is an integral part of the struggle to remove the monsters, who now run things, from power and their positions of great wealth.”
    -dmorista

    Hmmmmmmm… Am I dealing with a doppelgänger here? Mr. “Integral part of the struggle” has turned into a stark raving mad, reactionary lunatic when it comes to the 2nd Amendment and gun ownership.

    You obviously went to great pains to research all the biased anti-gun “statistics” you coughed up here. I’ll give you that.

    March, April, May, June, and July of 2020 saw the greatest surge in first-time gun ownership since such statistics have been recorded. Were they all right-wing Trumpsters buying a firearm for the first time? The largest single group of new gun owners are women. When I go to my local gun range, I see a group of people that is more diverse than most communities in CA – white, black, Asian, Latino, Pacific Islander, young, old, middle-aged, conservative, moderate, liberal, men, women, and children. You should come out some time and lecture them why they shouldn’t be allowed to own a firearm.

    I hope you’re never in a position where you wish you would have been armed. It’s kind of like wishing you had that fire extinguisher on the day you needed it, but didn’t.

  • dmorista

    This quote from you is really a bit too much:

    “Liberal hypocrites like you would be all in for a poor, black home-owner brandishing his gun if a gang of white supremacists marched by. Which goes to show it only matters who it is that is exercising their right to self-defense with you folks.

    “I support everyone’s 2nd Amendment rights… including blacks, especially blacks. Including women, especially women. Including rich and poor.”

    First how do you know that I am a “liberal”. I am clearly a person of the Left, but certainly not a “liberal”. I do find that I certainly end up closer to their positions, than to those of the clearly insane right-wing who have been steadily driving the U.S. towards the abyss. What I would really like to see would be a SWAT raid against the McCloskey residence. An event during which the raiders actually would kill their pets and if they reached for their guns they would be slaughtered without a second thought. OH, but yeah SWAT raids (of which there are now over 80,000 per year in the U.S.) are overwhelmingly conducted against POOR PEOPLE. But then isn’t that really the job of the police in all capitalist countries; enforce unjust and unequal socioeconomic and political conditions using whatever level of force is necessary to do so.

    But that should not be too surprising. The U.S. was set up by a cabal of lawyers, merchants, bankers, plantation owners, and land speculators, that the boosters always reverently refer to as the “Founding Fathers”). Their immediate goal was to replace the British as the group that was in the position to extract a profit out of the economy. They were always very clear about how they intended to treat the working people and the poor. No vote, no political power, and available for whatever level of exploitation the ruling elites could manage to impose on them.

    Anatole France once wrote that “The Law, in its majesty, equally forbids the rich and the poor from sleeping under bridges”. Well your version of that is that you equally support the right of the rich and poor to buy guns that they can brandish on their front porches. Also the rich and the poor have an equal right to hire some muscle to guard their home, something the McCloskeys did the next day. In addition the rich and the poor, theoretically, have an equal right to a jury trial if charged with brandishing their guns. Of course the McCloskeys, who are both attorneys, were not actually arrested even though they were finally charged, after the incident became a national news story. A poor person would be summarily dragged off to Jail for the same offense, most likely after getting roughed up by the gendarmes, and then held in a dangerous county jail until their “trial”, if they could not post bail. No such inconvenience for the McCloskeys, just a slap on the back from their colleagues down at the court when they make their appearance. They could actually afford a jury trial, and would not be in danger of their lives as they. A poor person would be subjected to the typical “plea bargain” justice that is the real legal system of the U.S. for the rich and the non-rich. The U.S. “(in)justice system” would collapse within days if all the people charged with crimes actually had trials, judge or jury. Of course a poor person, with some court appointed attorney or overworked public defender and held in the generally very dangerous county jail system, is at a significant disadvantage when it comes to the “

  • Mensch59

    …the patently insane right-wing who have been steadily driving the U.S. towards the abyss.

    I think that such accusations poison civil debate and make it impossible for those who politically orient as “leftists” (who advocate for the working class-friendly social issues) to even attempt to find common ground (based on common sense) with “right-wingers” (who advocate for these same working class-friendly social issues).

    The temptation — well… it’s actually succumbing to the divide & conquer strategy of authoritarians of all (political) stripes on all socio-economic levels — to always put politics in the us-vs-them mentality will never build working class solidarity.

    Plenty of working class Americans are both working class and idenify as “conservative”. Leftists would do well to seek and to find the common working class social issues which we all can fight for, rather than fight against our brothers & sisters for being “right-wing”.

    Frankly, most of the “leftists” with whom I’ve ever been closely associated seem to be quick to buy into the divide and conquer strategy of labeling an alternative pov “right-wing” or “reactionary” or “conspiracist” or “speculatory” or “non-dialectical” or “stupid” or “insane” — which, when you really think about it, isn’t making an argument, but is rather shutting down a civil exchange of dissenting perspectives — rather than really listening (attempting to understand) an alternative pov.

    Maybe this habit of labeling an alternate pov “wrong” — with a vast number of labels to signify wrongness — is so deeply ingrained that working class solidarity between laborers who politically orient toward the left or toward liberalism or toward conservatism will never be achieved.

    Many of the regular posters on The Digger have the goal of discussing the working class issues which transcend labels.

  • Mensch59

    I think that you are absolutely correct to put justice in the specific context of poverty.
    Just as slaves have to work to free themselves/ourselves, poverty-stricken people seek to work themselves/ourselves out of poverty.
    There are plenty of obstacles preventing the poor from working their/our way out of poverty, but there are success stories as well. I would link to a statistical meta-analysis of hundreds of millions of people today who are working themselves out of poverty, but this site always sends links into pending.

    I don’t consider a statistical meta-analysis “political” any more than I consider 2+2=4 political. However, 2+2=5 is definitively political.

    One of the major obstacles poor people face is the temptation to join the gangs which have turned petty crime lucrative (but only to the gang bosses) — as opposed to the crimes of the powerful Machiavellians on the top of social hierarchical power structures. Then there is the obstacle of the nanny state, which makes a part of the population of the poor slothful, i.e. willing to live on the dole or willing to work for the easy money. The nanny state isn’t the social safety net, but that distinction is a conversation for another time.

    My point is that there is a real distinction to be made between poor laborers and poor criminals. I think that it’s a mistake to lump all the poor together.

    I recently came across the political-economic term “Producerism” and I wondered if you knew about it. I think that it has to do with the concept of the lumpenproletariat, i.e. there is an element of the proletariat which lacks revolutionary potential. Producerism, sometimes referred to as “producer radicalism,” is an ideology of populist economic nationalism which holds that the productive forces of society – the ordinary worker, the small businessman, and the entrepreneur, are being held back by parasitical elements at both the top and bottom of the social stratum. The ordinary worker can still be poor. I wouldn’t consider a poor petty criminal an “ordinary worker”.

  • dmorista

    True enough. Of course the problem is that the large number, though a minority, of the common people who support right-wing positions are the ground troops for that faction, among the elites, who want to clamp down and kill a few million of us off and imprison a few million more and work us to death. You are, I am sure aware of Rex 84, the plan 26 years ago to imprison millions of people in response to some supposed uprising to protest the Central American wars and death squad operations (that was Oliver North’s contribution). That premise proved to be illusory as the American people, not the most worldly group on Earth, just don’t get worked up about foreign policy issues; unless they are about to be press-ganged into cannon fodder status or are presented with a “Pearl Harbor / 9-11 type of event” designed to move them into bellicosity. Not that I personally subscribe to the belief that FDR knew the Kido Butai carrier force was on its way to Hawaii. But there is no doubt that he was involved in goading the Japanese to attack some American outpost in the Pacific, most likely the Philippines, and that would have served as the pretext and motivating event. Anyhow thank you for a bit of constructive criticism. My back and forth with CC9491 has gone on for a couple of weeks now, and I have shed my usual level of restraint. You and I, perhaps not even CC9491 are probably the only people on Earth who will actually read that latest post by myself.

  • Mensch59

    Your posts are always worth reading. That’s why I thought you might consider working them into original content which could be archived on the blogspot site The Digger/new levellers.
    I’m looking esp forward to the discussions they generate.
    So much going on in the world. So much information. So much distraction. One characterization of “inverted totalitarianism” is to politicize everything. That’s making our political era “post-truth”.

  • Mensch59

    Related to Rex84, see the article on The Digger “When Corporate Power Is Your Real Government, Corporate Media Is State Media” by Caitlin Johnstone, https:// newlevellers. blogspot .com/2020/08/when-corporate-power-is-your-real.html (remove spaces)

  • CoCoLuv9491

    “You are “putting words in my mouth” that I have not uttered.”

    I am doing no such thing. Well, OK, you didn’t “utter” them. You wrote them. https://disqus.com/home/discussion/popularresistance/couple_that_pointed_guns_at_protesters_charged_with_felonies/#comment-5011762444

    How does only allowing guns to be in one’s home support the premise that you wrote? You can only “remove the monsters” when they kick down your door???

    The ability to carry a weapon is a huge deterrent to crime. Police usually do not arrive to a crime scene until well after the fact. Citizens have the right to defend themselves if the police are not there to do so. There are thousands of instances yearly of law-abiding citizens using a weapon to defend themselves against criminals. In the vast majority of cases, brandishing a weapon is sufficient to deter a criminal. In a very small percentage, citizens (including business owners) have discharged a firearm against a criminal. In an even smaller percentage of the time, this results in a fatality. If any citizen uses a weapon for anything other than self-defense, they themselves are criminal, and should be prosecuted as such.

    You are completely unhinged when it comes to the issues of guns. I suggest you put your energy into working to repeal the 2nd Amendment, instead of pontificating online using spurious arguments against law-abiding citizens who bear arms.

    I, like you, used to believe there was no need for citizens to carry firearms. My attitude has shifted 180º, and I now understand the wisdom of the Founding Fathers including the right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights. I have a gun. I will probably get more. I train weekly at my local gun range. I hope I never have to use it. But if I do, I will be prepared to do so. I have also applied for my CCW license, and my hope is that it will approved. Apparently to you, I’m the enemy. To me, bearing a firearm makes as much sense as having a fire extinguisher in my home, which I also hope I never have to use.

  • dmorista

    What you are, in fact, is either a dupe or a fascist. Do you think it is just coincidental that the big push for “stand your ground” laws and big increases in open and concealed carry laws was, almost entirely a product of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC)? ALEC is largely a Koch Brothers operation, they specialize in writing laws to favor far-right wing causes. Heavily armed vigilante groups are just part of their strategy to maintain control in a country that, increasingly disagrees with their policies.

    The smarter members of the ruling class in the U.S. realize that the U.S. is finished (at least as the Global Hegemon). Chalmers Johnson pointed out in his trilogy that included, The Sorrows of Empire: Militarism, Secrecy, and the End of the Republic, that the British ruling class; after trying to maintain their empire as it fell apart, eventually acquiesced to the saner strategy of giving up their empire and opting for more democracy and reasonable social welfare benefits at home. I don’t even know if a similar option, that appears to be the only sane way to deal with the loss of hegemonic power and maintain a viable domestic social order, is possible in the U.S. American Freikorps marching around with their assault rifles certainly won’t help.

    You consistently post your “gun-nut” / NRA / vigilante orthodoxy of 145 million gun owners, that happens to be bullshit. The real number is more like 60 million. You post absurd BS about how the 2nd Amendment was intended to provide an armed force to fight some imagined future tyranny. You buy in to the right-wing propaganda and disinformation campaign about a fantasy crime wave, when in fact crime is at near all-time lows. Yes there are places like the slums of Baltimore and parts of the South Side of Chicago where there is a lot of gun violence. Were you American Freikorps types going to march around brandishing your assault rifles in some of those places. You also constantly post absurd “false equivalencies”, like that the poor should also buy up guns and march around. Just how do you think that would work out?

    I don’t care what you think and you don’t care what I think. This interchange has long passed the point of serving any useful purpose and I am done with it.

  • dmorista

    You keep posting this BS about the protesters vandalizing the McCloskey’s property. There is no proof of that, a photo of a bent gate, wherever it was from, posted at Fox News does not qualify as proof. The McCloskeys are certainly owners of video cameras and smart phones, and being attorneys they would have filmed that sort of thing knowing the value of such “evidence”. But of course they did not, presumably because it did not happen.

    As for this absurd statement “… protest away, but stay off people’s property, don’t vandalize people’s
    property, and don’t inflict bodily harm on others. If protesters adhere
    to those principles, they should never see a gun.” It is too ridiculous to take seriously. There have been at least 70 incidents where reactionaries drove their cars into crowds of peaceful protesters injuring and killing people. There are plenty of videos of “your colleagues” standing around watching peaceful protesters with their assault rifles. Just do a websearch for Crown Point Indiana protest for a video that shows about 10 typical lumpen proletarians standing there with their assault rifles watching a totally peaceful protest pass by. An event that has not trespassed on body’s property or caused the slightest damage or injury, pass by.

    The McCloskeys are part of the socioeconomic and political class that sets up the 80,000 SWAT raids that occur each year, I think it would only be fair for them to be subjected to some SWAT raids (rather than just poor people). I am not only serious about what I said I will go one further. There have been dozens of killings of middle class and working class American school children at public schools over the years by various gun toting killers. If the hypocrisy and lies about actually doing something about gun control were ever to be actually exposed, what we would need to see is: a major slaughter of students at one of the prep schools, Choate, Andover, Groton, Cranbrook Institute or some similar very elite private school. All the hemming and hawing about we can’t do this and we can’t do that to control guns would end very suddenly. The elites would use their enormous power to move the discussion and governmental action. But because the schools their children attend are guarded by very extensive and very expensive security arrangements their children are safe. Your personal usefulness as an “American Freikorps man” would come to an immediate end.

    You can hypocritically write, about my comments, OH you did not really mean that!! Surely you were writing tongue-in-cheek. A ruling class that has murdered between 20 – 100 million people since WW 2, that has used deadly force against its own populace in a variety of ways, does not deserve to remain immune to the death and violence they inflict on others (Gun violence is only a small part, Ralph Nader has pointed out that medical malpractice kills 250,000 per year, the pharmaceutical companies killed 60,000 people a year just with oxycontin and other opiod based pain killers that they could easily have changed the formula on to make them less addictive, and it just goes on and on. Probably about 1 million Americans are killed each year by the system of exploitation and repression that these monsters operate).

    You are welcome to respond to this, and I might even read it but certainly this interchange has far exceeded any useful length.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Did you, or did you not, post the comment to which I linked?

    You appear to be a paranoid authoritarian. If you fear the ruling class, as you rightly should, then to not be armed is foolishness of the highest order. These irrational screeds that you post reveal you to be an anti-gun obsessive, who will grasp at any tangential narrative to try to prop up your “gun nut”/vigilante hysteria.

    The 2nd Amendment and gun ownership issue has nothing to do with “left versus right,” except, of course, that over time the so-called liberal left has morphed into a army of sanctimonious, pro-authoritarian hypocrites – pro-war, pro-surveillance state, pro-corporate capitalism, pro-CIA, pro-censorship, pro-Russian conspiracy theories, pro-virus totalitarianism, and anti-Constitutional freedoms. That you choose to align with these morons is certainly your prerogative, but not a very good look for a self-described leftist.

    I’ll allow you to have your choice to not be armed. And I’ll continue to stand for my right to own a tool for self-defense.

  • As delicious as this entire comment is, the piece de resistance was the perfect “Adios m-fer”.

    Not to hijack your comment man, but you mentioned opioids. The barbaric and inhumane boomerang effect of the pharma caused opioid crisis and mass deaths – is that chronic pain and cancer patients are now denied pain relief because of onerous restrictions on doctors prescribing them, and fear of law suits.

    Post surgical patients are now prescribed wholly inadequate pain relief. It is a helluva sick system that denies relief to the suffering.

  • dmorista

    Yes, there is an increasing fear among, and repression of, pain relief specialists. The corporate minions of the wealthy families, and those oligarchs, who own the companies that did not bother to adjust the formulation of oxycontin, are protecting themselves with these measures.

  • Yep. It is an example where doctors are being prohibited from providing humane healthcare so that the suffering can have any quality of life – by interests that are entirely alienated from health.

  • dreamjoehill

    Good post. I would add that the British ruling class didn’t accept more democracy and reasonable social welfare benefits at home out of the goodness of heir hearts.

    A strong socialist movement existed in Britain after WW II and it forced the hand of the ruling class. This can be seen directly in the socialist led struggle to create the National Health Service.

  • dmorista

    Yes, excellent point about the British ruling class. The two horrific world wars played a major role in this. After the First World War the slogan of the Labour Party was “A Home Fit for Heroes”; in regards to building some decent housing to replace the horrible working class flats that occupied most of the working class neighborhoods. That was the origin of the Council Housing built all over the country between WWs 1 & 2 and in the post-War period.

    After WW 2 the working class, with 2 successive generations who had fought and suffered for the country, and elements of the middle class joined together and fought for decent general social welfare benefits. The ruling class had no choice but to agree to significant concessions and to cut way back on armaments funding. That lasted through the “Golden Age of Capitalism” that. in the U.K., definitively ended in the late 1970s when the monster Thatcher became prime minister. The the deferred agenda of the ruling class began to be implemented and we have had, along with the British, over 40 years of austerity, cutbacks, militarization, repression, and mobilization of every lumpen type who can be persuaded to shill or thug for the rulers.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Don’t bring up facts that contradict this authoritarian’s misinformation. He’ll accuse you of being a “gun nut” and “vigilante.”

  • CoCoLuv9491

    That… plus he’s just not very smart.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    I never said I did. Machine guns and hand grenades are illegal. Your point?

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Philando’s demise had to do with racist cops, not the gun he was carrying. The McCloskeys injured no one, even though a crowd of protesters invaded their personal property. I’d say they were pretty restrained.

    These two examples you bring up have nothing to do with firearms making confrontations worse. Firearms often deescalate confrontations, but anti-gunners will never admit that. They often protect citizens and business owners from violent criminals, too. Once again, never acknowledged by the anti-gun obsessives.

  • Mensch59

    As intelligent as a brick.

  • milo

    It may very well be that firearms de-escalate situations where you come from. In fact when that meme first surfaced I scoured the web for examples. And found one instance in Grundy, VA where a school shooter was shooting up a community college. So one teacher went out to the parking lot, retrieved his handgun and shot the guy.

    But that was one instance. Meanwhile in DC I worked the streets for fourteen years. And I never heard of one single incident where the presence of a handgun didn’t make the situation worse.

    As for Philando, it seems highly likely that if he had not had a legal handgun in the glove he would still be alive today. It was police assumptions about the criminal nature of all black men that made the difference. All the officer heard was “gun”.

  • rat doctor

    You are much to reasonable and logical to get thru to dmorista.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    He’s usually fairly sensible and correct about most issues, but when it comes to 2nd Amendment rights, he’s completely unhinged.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Why is it that Popular Resistance refuses to publish a video I posted that shows a young black man exercising his 2nd Amendment right to self-defense against a white assailant, but they allow a video of a protester being stabbed to be posted???

    If “graphic content” is a disqualifying factor, surely a video of someone being shot is no more disturbing than one of someone being stabbed. Perhaps it’s because the politics my video speaks to is verboten to the moderators?

    Just asking…

  • ozarkmichael

    apparently not.

  • ozarkmichael

    I see Collectivist has graduated from posting threatening ‘punch’ videos to posting threatening ‘stab’ videos.

  • Collectivist

    The only thing you have to fear is fear itself.

  • ozarkmichael

    Dont misunderstand. You dont cause me fear.

    You pretend to be a tiger, Collectivist, and you quote Mao like a bloodthirsty wannabe dictator, and you threaten a lot of violence to people who disagree with you, but we both know that you are as dangerous as a pony at a petting zoo. You can be ridden around in little circles all day. The amusement never ends!

  • Mensch59

    @newestbeginning:disqus prefers to stay with the leftish talking points which have the seal of approval of her tribe, club, in-group, gang, mob of thugs.

  • ozarkmichael

    I no longer grace her comments as “Leftish”. She doesnt rise to that level. After all, how many Leftists quote Stalin?
    Her tribe is best described as Thuggish.

  • Mensch59

    Not all Leftists are Marxists.
    Almost all Marxists, at least those of whom I’m aware, consider the Stalinist movement a natural evolution of Marxism and Leninism.
    That’s why almost all Marxists are statists and authoritarian.
    Very few students of Marx evolved toward anarchistic libertarian democratic socialism.
    I could be wrong about modern day Marxists also being unapologetic Stalinists.

    I’m still thinking about a slow day or weekend to put up Ulli Diemer”s article “What is Libertarian Socialism?”

  • Collectivist

    “Almost all Marxists, at least those of whom I’m aware, consider the Stalinist movement a natural evolution of Marxism and Leninism.”

    Another uninformed statement.

  • marcosnanto

    I used to appreciate Eleusis nailing Amazon but now I see him morphing and similar with Ort. I generally agree with their posts nailing Obama, Biden, and the rest of the centrist “Democrats” but their libertarian leanings on the pandemic are sad. As for CC, I got into a messy argument on guns and 2nd amendment in another thread. From what I’ve seen of CC’s ramblings, it sounds like CC really believes that it can “shoot out the virus”. Sadly, I’ve met people just like them in the real world as well and have lost what could have been good friends all because of either guns or the pandemic.