On Market Solutions To The Covid-19 Crisis

| Educate!

Above photo: By Valmedia/Shutterstock.com.

Listening to Trump’s daily press conference, one gets injected with a healthy dose of how market-based solutions are already saving us from the virus.

On a daily basis, Trump tells us what a fantastic job he’s doing, then trots out corporate CEOs before the camera, one after another, each telling us what they’re doing: US auto execs tell us of their plans to convert their idled factories and produce millions of ventilators (while states in desperate need are actually buying them from abroad, mostly China).  Big Pharma companies are developing the new vaccine or interim medical treatments like hydrocholoroquinine (which Cuba has already produced and is giving free to Italy); silicon valley tech companies announce contributions of hundreds of thousands of N95 masks (from their offshore inventories purchased from Asia and elsewhere no doubt).

But the reality is that the free market and so-called free enterprise system is largely responsible for much of today’s health crisis.  It is the ‘market’ that has given us the massive shortages in hospital beds, ventilators, critical personal protection equipment (PPE), and the long lag in developing interim medical treatments—let alone a vaccine.

Here are just a few notable cases of how the market has failed and continues to do so:

Hospital Beds

As others have pointed out, before the Neoliberal market system implanted itself in the USA decades ago with Ronald Reagan (deepening and expanding ever since), there were 1.5 million hospital beds in the country and an extensive non-profit public hospital system.  Before 1980 there were 100 million fewer US citizens for those 1.5 million beds. Today there are 100 million more Americans, but only 925,000 hospital beds. We’ve added 100 million but reduced beds by 500,000. The reduction, of course, was all done in the name of ‘market efficiency’ by the for-profit hospital chains who bought up and then shut down much of the non-profit public hospital system. Now, as the current health crisis deepens, we’re left setting up cots in auditoriums and college dorms and call them hospitals.

The crisis in hospital beds for virus patients can be traced largely to the program of Bill Clinton in 1994 called ‘managed health care’. That program permitted and incentivized the acquisition of the public hospital system by the for-profit chains who sought to reduce competition so they could raise prices. Under Clinton’s program, the for-profit chains were even exempted from US anti-trust laws that might have prevented the loss of half a million hospital beds. Hospitals are one of the few industries totally exempt from anti-trust still today.

Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)

Why is the USA so short on ventilators, masks, safety clothing, even disinfectants? It’s because the market solution was to offshore the production of these critical items to Asia, Latin America, and especially China years ago.  It was cheaper to move production offshore (experts call this today relocating the supply chains!). It was cheaper to import back these products to the US economy.  Expanding free trade (again under Clinton) then made the cost of importing back to the US even cheaper and thus more profitable still.  Offshoring and free trade are but two sides of the same coin. Add a third leg to the economic stool: tax laws were changed to provide tax breaks to corporations that actually offshored the production of PPE.

Fast forward and today we have China producing 115 million N95 and surgical masks A DAY! China’s surplus is so great it is giving ventilators and masks to Italy for free. But is the US saying anything about this in Trump’s press conferences?  Has Trump ever admitted the availability of these critical PPE materials, ready for import to the US right now! No.  Instead, health care providers, doctors, nurses, technicians, are told to re-use their masks and other equipment since there aren’t enough of them to go around.  And we’re told by corporate representatives in Trump’s press conferences the materials are coming. Just be patient.

And then there’s the Hydrochloroquinine interim treatment for those sick with Covid-19. Trump mentioned that. But did he say where it was being already used? Some reports are now appearing that the treatment was successfully developed in Cuba, whose doctors have been sent to Italy to administer it there to the most ill patients. But no mention, however, that that treatment is taking place right now in Italy. You won’t hear that ‘non-market’ solution from market unfriendly Cuba from Trump.

Unemployment Benefits

The USA has one of the most miserly unemployment benefit payment systems among all the advanced economies. It provides barely a third of what’s needed to live on. And in many states not even that.  In California, one of the more generous in relative terms, the top benefit is $450/wk. That’s about $1,800 a month. But the median rent in urban areas of California alone is $3,000 or more!  In New York and other big cities, even more.  And the insufficient benefits are paid for only six months.

But if you’re one of the tens of millions of temp, contract, gig workers you’re not considered an employee for the company you’re working for. You, therefore, are not eligible for even the insufficient unemployment benefits paid in the US.

That has temporarily changed as the US Congress CARE Act just passed. It now provides unemployment benefits for ‘gig’ and other contract workers, albeit for just four months. But the point is this: It’s not the ‘market’ that is helping the millions of gig and other contract workers with at least some benefits. It’s the government.  With the CARES Act, the government and taxpayer will now pick up the tab for the unemployment benefits for the millions of contract and gig workers that the ‘market’ has failed to cover. The market has allowed companies to avoid paying any unemployment benefits tax that would otherwise cover contract and gig workers. The taxpayer and government now will ‘pick up the tab’. The market failed and the government-taxpayer must clean up its mess and provide the benefits companies like Uber, Lyft, AirBnB and others have avoided and pocketed for themselves.

Health Insurance

In the free market Nirvana that is the USA today, millions of companies are permitted to forego providing their employees health insurance coverage.  37 million have no insurance at all. And 87 million are underinsured.  Millions with some insurance have deductibles of thousands of dollars per person a year.

Now the Cares Act once again, i.e. the government and taxpayer, is stepping in and ensure these millions—employed and unemployed—have some kind of health insurance coverage. The government is called upon to clean up the mess the market has left.

Paid Medical-Sick Leave

The richest country in the world, the USA, where the Fortune 500 largest companies have managed to distribute more than $1 trillion a year for the past nine years to their shareholders in stock buybacks and dividend payouts, only provides on average 6 paid sick leave days a year to employees. And that’s typically only where a union contract exists. Most get unpaid sick leave or none at all. Get sick, go find another job. That’s the ‘market solution’. In Europe and elsewhere, combined paid leave is typically 30 days or more a year. But not in Trump’s market solution America.

Once again, the consequence is that the government-taxpayer in the CARES Act will have to pick up the tab for paid medical leave for the millions who must stay home due to their Employer’s order, or government ‘stay in place’ guidelines, or school districts shutdowns.

Market Solutions for Worker Retraining

 It used to be that companies trained their own workers to become more skilled and productive. There was once a very widespread on the job training culture in the USA. That disappeared as well with the deepening of Neoliberalism and globalization (aka free trade, offshoring, and foreign direct investment by US multinational corps). Under Bill Clinton, corporations were allowed to bring hundreds of thousands of skilled workers from their foreign operations back to the US to take some of the best US jobs. It still continues. Free market efficiency meant it was cheaper (and more profitable) just to transfer workers on H1-B and L-1/2 visas to the US. No need to train American citizens. Cheaper simply to import skilled labor. That was the ‘market solution’ to job training.

The CARES ACT: $500 Billion ‘Socialism for Corporations’

The CARES Act allocates $500 billion just to large corporations. (Another $367 billion to smaller businesses). But do the large corporations really need the $500 billion? And who will oversee the distribution of that largesse?

Take the Airlines. Do they need it for the next 60 days? Do they deserve it?

The airlines are getting $58 billion under the just-passed Cares Act. Half of that in outright grants. No strings attached.  Another half in loans. Reportedly, they’re now quickly taking the grants but not the loans. Why? They’re probably waiting for Congress to agree to convert the loans to outright grants later in the year.

But no one is asking how much cash on hand the airline companies have as they’re handed these tens of billions of $! And no one is mentioning that the same airline companies in recent years gave their shareholders and CEOs no less than $45 billion in stock buybacks and dividend payouts. So now they’re getting $58B to backfill the hole of $45 billion they gave away to themselves and their big investors (who together owned most of the $45B stock bought back).

Here’s another question unanswered:  In recent years big corporations (Fortune 500) earned record profits and paid out more than $1T a year in buybacks and dividends. Under Trump, they’ve paid out a total of more than $3 trillion in buybacks+dividends.  In addition to that, in the months immediately leading up to the March 2020 virus crisis, the same big corporations were drawing down hundreds of billions of dollars from their credit lines with banks.  At the same time in recent months, they have been issuing new bonds and raising billions more in cash. No less than $73 billion was raised from issuing new bonds in February, a record.  Flush with mountains of cash from Trump 2018 tax cuts, from their bank credit lines, and from record corporate bond issuance, they now are being given $500 billion more by Congress in the CARES ACT. Do they really need it? Let’s open their books and see before they get even $1.

Not least, there’s the question of who will oversee who gets the $500 billion.  The Democrats in Congress say the special board created must oversee. Trump, in turn, has said, no way. I’m personally going to oversee. Want to guess who’ll win that one?

The point is Big Corporations are loaded with cash. And they didn’t earn most of it from the ‘market’. They got it from Trump tax cuts, from bank credit lines, and from low-interest corporate bond issuance made possible by convenient near zero-interest loans from the Federal Reserve.  Nevertheless, now the non-market sugar daddy, the US government, is giving them $500 more whether they need it or not!

Super-Socialism for Bankers & Investors 

The $500 billion going to big business pales in comparison, however, to the multi-trillions that the central bank, the Federal Reserve, is now pouring into the bankers, shadow bankers (i.e. hedge funds, equity firms, investment banks, mutual funds, etc.), and even now into non-bank corporations for the first time as well.

In 2008 the Federal Reserve provided more than $4 trillion to bail out the banks. Now it is providing more than $6 trillion (thus far)—and this time the banks haven’t even failed yet!

The Fed has opened a free money spigot to investors, bankers, and to big business of all types, and has simply declared ‘come on in and take it’. And if the $6 trillion to date isn’t enough, we’ll provide more.

For the first time ever the Fed is now providing free money not only to bankers, but to credit card companies, mortgage companies, corporate bondholders, and even to investors in derivatives like Exchange Traded Funds, or ETFs. Next, it will start buying stocks to prop up those markets. Its cousin central bank, the Bank of Japan, has been doing that for years now.

Subsidizing Capital Incomes by Government Not the Market

Both tax policy and central bank monetary policy are supposed to function as general economy stabilization tools, according to mainstream economists. But today that’s a fiction perpetrated by the corporate media. In recent decades, tax and central bank policy ‘tools’ have become virtual conduits for the subsidization of capital incomes.

They have become the vehicles of Corporate Socialism. The Capitalist State and its government take care of their own. The rest of us will be taken care of by ‘the market’, according to Trump.

Dr. Rasmus is author of the just-published book, ‘The Scourge of Neoliberalism: US Economic Policy from Reagan to Trump’, Clarity Press, January 2020. He blogs at jackrasmus.com and hosts the weekly radio show, Alternative Visions on the Progressive Radio Network. Join Dr. Rasmus for daily commentary on developments in the US economy and politics on Twitter at @drjackrasmus.

  • jemcgloin

    Excellent description of the true problem, with many important details and logical analysis.

    It is important to realize that every Trillion dollars that goes from Our Government to the pockets of global shareholders is $3,000 coming out of the pocket of each U.S. citizen (or $36,000 for a family of four).
    These amounts of money would make a real difference in the lives of everyone, especially the ones that need it most. Instead We are being looted.

    The Left has to stop being too pure to govern and start taking over the levers of power (despite the risk that it will corrupt some of us) to make life better for most People.

    The Right doesn’t have super-majorities to ratify amendments to make this a ‘white,’ ‘christian,’ ‘capitalist,’ country, so they corrupt public servants to corrupt the Constitution.

    The Left wrote the Constitution and keeps amending it, with super-majorities, to reaffirm that all citizens are Equal under the law, and that we are supposed to promote justice and the general welfare with an eye to Posterity.

    The Constitution is a Left document. (The Right would rather have a white christian capitalist king.) Rally to save it before Trump takes the Sovereign Authority from We the People and makes it his own. When Trump says the FBI is engaged in a coup against HIM, he is claiming that he is Sovereign. That is Trump’s coup.

    Stop the Disaster Capitalists by replacing sellout Democrats like Chuck Schumer with the actual moderate patriots on the Left.

  • voza0db
  • voza0db

    It’ seems that comment needs a little edit!

  • voza0db

    When you write “actual moderate patriots on the Left.do you mean the Green Party?

  • 0040

    There was no left or right when the constitution was written only unhappen English colonists who found over taxing, regulating markets, as well as forcing them to give up their slaves onerous . Looking at history with modern eyes always leads to false conclusions.

  • 0040

    “Market Solutions” historically are delaying tactics as Adam Smith and Karl Marx, etal perhaps accidently pointed out in their fiction filled tomes attempting to make greed a science.

  • rgaura

    One can despise Trump and also acknowledge the multiple coup attempts by insiders at Justice Dept., FBI, money laundering Democrats, and the media. We see rampant abuses of power in government at this time, on both sides of the aisle, and all branches of government.

  • MrRedwoodGuy .

    “Markets” are a radical abstraction of private property rights imposed on masses by an owner class. For example, consider how you purchase electricity. It’s not actually a “market” in any legitimate sense of the word. With hundreds of millions of customers, but only a few hundred suppliers, it is a typical shared monopoly created for the ownership class to milk the non-ownership masses. Calling it a “market” is just deceptive advertising.

    While we slept, a complex superstructure of civilization was built up placing the masses high above ground in such a precarious position that they must depend on all these market operators for life’s necessities. Unless and until we revert to more simplistic (flat) structures of civilization we are doomed to be at the mercy of a few owners.

  • Nylene13

    So Cuba has developed a treatment for this virus, but we are not hearing about it because Capitalist USA hates Cuba.


    Capitalism is the problem. What is the question?


    CAPITALISM IS evil. based on everyone buying things they don’t need at prices they can’t afford. There was a reason Jesus threw the moneylenders (banks) out of the Temple- separation of church and state.
    FIRST, (stock market crashes)
    SECOND.( and the wealth of the society in a few hands.)
    THIRD. (endless wars).
    FOURTH. (everyone shift for himself, and the idea of community is diminished.)
    FIFTH. (Global warming and capitalism are intertwined. Air pollution kills 7 million people a year.)
    SIXTH- (Debt slavery and confiscation of property. LOANS= DEBT= SLAVERY)
    SEVENTH- Planned obsolescence leads to waste dumps and pollution,
    Stock market crashes. The wealth of the society in a few hands. Endless wars. The idea of community is done away with. Global warming- air pollution kills 7 million people a year.Debt slavery results in confiscation of property.Planned obsolescence leads to waste dumps and pollution
    EIGHTH- You ust smile for the camera. You must make little asinine jokes if you are a Republican. This shows the world what a great country you live in.

  • Howard

    I think there are some basic misconceptions here. Yes, so-called “market solutions” are not solutions, they are schemes to make profits, but there is no “free market” nor “free-enterprise” in this economy. It is all run by credit being used as money which gives for-profit big banks control over the economic development of society. Capitalism dominates and is a voracious parasite on the markets and free-enterprise. Capitalism is the private control of the money system and supply for private profit, usury. Capitalism issues all money as debt which enslaves people, businesses and governments. The American Revolution was a failed effort to win public control of the money, as Allende would say about his own revolution 200 years later, “We won the revolution but we did not win the power.” Greenback public money saved the nation from dissolution. The banks got their revenge. Today we are really being taken to the cleaners but the planet will have Her revenge.

  • voza0db

    Another good reason to start from scratch…

  • voza0db

    Indeed… A text written by the rich to protect their Wealth.

  • voza0db

    For those that believe in religious fairy tales and then apply them to reality you must write “Umanity is evil”!

  • voza0db

    IVC is a pretty good treatment also… But too inexpensive!

  • RickW

    True enough! The only essential difference between the two is who gets the money. There is no mention by either that the resources on which both systems rely should be left unexploited.
    Both “left” and “right” agree that “the only good Indian is a dead Indian”….

  • Nylene13

    What to do about the C Virus?

    Get Bernie Sanders elected President.

    Until we have Real change, nothing Can change.

    The sick will get sicker, and the rich will get richer.

  • chetdude

    Don’t stop there!

    The only change will come about when a critical mass of We the People realize that even Bernie Sanders in the White House will NOT change a goddamn thing!

    The ONLY thing that will bring about the existentially necessary, substantive systemic changes we need at the Federal level will be when enough BODIES directly oppose the 18,000 paid Gucci shoe wearing lobbyists in the Halls of Congress and cocktail parties of Washington, DC to get the 269 votes needed to pass those changes to the disgusting inhumane framework of laws and tax code we suffer under.

    I’m getting a little disappointed in Bernie — for a start he’s got to STOP calling corporate-Joe Biden “my friend” and get some training in Framing from George Lakoff, the man who has been the voice in the wilderness since 2000 and has been trying to teach the alleged “opposition” (Democrats) how to counter the lies and framing of the republicans and corporate-democrats…

  • chetdude

    The only thing in USAmerica that approaches a “free market” are Farmers Markets and Yard sales…

    Guess what!? We don’t need capitalism in order to engage in those…

  • chetdude

    Since USAmerica’s Reality-TV-Porn “elections” are run by the two corporate owned political “parties” and driven by relentless establishment propaganda (and the ad revenue requirements) of the vulture capitalist mass media owned by 6 corporations, how would you suggest “replacing sellout democrats”?

    No offense meant, but the only way I see instituting any REAL substantive systemic change is to build a People’s Movement and Lobby organized to demand change and of sufficient critical mass to directly confront and oppose the 18,000 paid lobbyists in DC and convince, cajole and if necessary FORCE the 269 votes needed from people who mostly say they’re “on our side” when they’re campaigning.

    PS: White, Male, Elite landowners, slave holders and a few merchants wrote the Constitution as a framework mainly designed to preserve and defend their Wealth and Privileges — HARDLY “left”…

  • Nylene13

    Bernie is doing his best. It does not matter what he calls Biden.

    The News just said that Trump has blocked a ship from China carrying supplies to Cuba to fight the virus.

    I just…have no words.

  • chetdude

    Bernie MUST get some training in framing from George Lakoff.

    Bernie’s main failing in 2016 and again this year is that he’s been conditioned by decades of being a voice in the wilderness of the U.S. Congress – with it’s facade of “civility” masking real feelings – and allows the DNC-owned corporate media and his corporate-dem opponents to frame every issue while he merely reacts and tries to return facts for memes that have ALREADY put him up against a wall.

    He’s great at relentlessly pointing to the real enemies of the People; the Oligarchs/billionaires and the system that supports them. BUT he should also be presenting OUR version of each issue along with an authentic VISION of life post Progressive Change and how it will improve the lives of everyone but the top point 1 of 1%.

    And Bernie MUST STOP calling Joe Biden his “friend”. Joe Biden is NOT OUR FRIEND any more than Trump is.

  • chetdude

    PS: There’s STILL time — I hope someone is putting Sanders together with Lakoff as I type this…

  • jemcgloin

    I mean everyone who wants to rise above the primordial ooze of rule of the few by terror.

    The Right is about the rich paying the most violent to subjugate the rest of us through terror.

    The Left is about reaching consensus among equals through dialogue.

    The left is moderate. The Right is extreme and the center pretends it doesn’t know the difference.

  • jemcgloin

    Starting with your P.S. about elite landowners. We People took the words in the Constitution seriously, and used the amendment process to remove the worst parts, and reaffirm again and again that all citizens are equal, the basis of democracy. The end of slavery, making everyone born here or naturalized an equal citizen under the law, giving black men the vote, giving women the vote, electing Senators directly were all Amendments to the Constitution ratified by super-majorities that moved the USA to more equality, democracy and freedom. Virginia may be late, but the just voted for the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment.
    The Right can’t ratify super-majorities to make this a ‘white,’ ‘christian,’ ‘capitalist nation’ (none of those words are in the Constitution), so they run for office and vote for criminals so they can corrupt the Constitution and pretend they are there.
    This is a Left Nation but the Left refuses to take power, so the Right is able to act like thugs using the power of the state against the rest of us.

    The Right Wing took over the Republican Party and got rid of all the establishment centrists. If they can take over the Republican party, we could take over the Democratic Party.

    The Constitution is not the problem. The corruption of the Constitution is the problem, and too many on the Left thinks that letting the Right end the Constitution will bring democracy, when the only thing that can bring is more corruption, including far MORE state violence than we have now.

    Yes a People’s Movement is necessary. All power comes from the People essentially, but We must unite a majority, not a tiny minority of activists. The vague hope if the Constitution falls we will not go backwards unites no one. A People’s Movement united around Our framework for debate could bring desperate Americans together to get good things done.

    The surrender of the Left to the corrupt in the Democratic party is not winning. Its losing. Its losing just like the Democrats lose when they surrender to Republicans.

    Surrender is not winning. To win you need to try to win.

    Waiting for the USA to collapse on itself is surrender.
    Letting Chuck Schumer be Senate Minority Leader without a Left challenger is surrender.
    Refusing to take power because it may corrupt us is surrender.
    Concentrating on clashes with law enforcement, which is DESIGNED to distract from the real power by beating up protesters than have the media blame them saying ‘protests turned violent’ is surrender dressed as heroism. I watched dozens of Occupiers burn themselves out (and creating a record to be used against them) by fighting with the police over and over, when that tactic had already worn itself out.

    Refusing to take control of the levers of power, knowing full well that someone more greedy, violent, and divisive will take those levers is surrender.

    Right now Trump is ‘purging’ (a word used by his supporters) Inspector Generals from the government. People on here will be using the crimes they would have stopped as evidence that the Constitution is bad, just like the Right does, but they won’t try to win the presidency so that it honest Inspector Generals can be hired.

    If there is any moment in modern American history when the Right and the establishment Center that ‘compromises’ with them are discredited, weak and beatable, this is that moment.
    Democracy is messy and slow. The People have jobs, while the billionaires have staffs and corporations who never rest. We have spent too many decades letting the criminals win by putting all of our efforts into protest and no effort into taking control of the police and the military so we can order them to deescalate.
    If We do not do it with this government, we would only have to do it with the next government.

    Enough surrender. Its time to run some candidates in their corporate, fixed, ‘Raality TV Porn,’ cut though the lies with the Pen of Truth and make some changes for the better.

  • jemcgloin

    A coup against who?

  • jemcgloin

    When the Right says they want to ‘water the soil of democracy with the blood of patriots,’ whose blood do you think they are talking about? Theirs?

  • jemcgloin

    The words left and Right came into use with the French Revolution which was the next year. Those who sat on the Left wanted a Constitution and those that sat on the Right wanted a king.

    When I say Right, I mean those that believe that the few should dominate the many by manipulating the violent.

    When I say left I mean those that want to create political consensus though reason and dialogue among equals.

    The words are not as important as the clash of ideas between democracy and rule by terror.

  • jemcgloin

    I essentially agree with this.

    The solution is simple but would be fought viciously by global banks.

    The solution is to stop using the Federal Reserve to create lend Our money to global banks at near zero interest. It makes it sound so innocent when you lend them money, until you realize they lend it back to us at rates up to 24% for credit cards, or even 700% annually in interest and fees for payday lenders.

    It is necessary to grow the money supply as the economy grows or the lack of cash would choke transactions. But it could go to We the People instead of global billionaires.
    The money supply has been growing by about $800 billion every year for at least a decade. $800 billion divided by 325 million citizens is about $2,400 per citizen or $9,600 for a family of four. Its not enough to live on, but its real money, especially for the poorest citizens.
    The Federal reserve could be putting $2,400 in the bank accounts of citizens instead of giving it to global banks, making the growth in money supply more direct and more controllable.
    Since that money actually belongs to We the People, not global shareholders, it would be fair.
    This system would be more fair and more efficient.

    On top of the regular growth of the money supply, the Federal Reserve has been regularly creating trillions of dollars to bail out banks. Under one program alone (QEII) the Fed gave a NET of $3 trillion dollars to banks. That comes to $9,000 per citizen or $36,000 for a family of four.

    I’m not sure if this solves the entire problem that you refer to. (Any bank that lends more than it has is creating money that disappears when it is paid back and that is difficult to stop.) However, putting an end to the Fed lending and giving global banks trillions of Our dollars, and instead giving it to every citizen would be far more fair and do far ore good.

  • jemcgloin

    Joe Biden is not our friend, but he would not literally govern like a king as Trump does. If Trump is reelected the Constitution is officially and Trump will not leave office until he coronates one of his children.

    There has never been a president so blatant about attacking every limit on his power.

    Biden may be not be our friend, but he is not nearly as dangerous as Trump.

  • jemcgloin

    The Right attacks. The Left defends. Its not the same.

    Don’t confuse Left and Right with Republican and Democrat. Its not the same.

  • jemcgloin

    Classical economists explained that electricity is not a market good, because it makes no sense to have multiple sellers running wires all over the place. They explained that it only made sense for it to be supplied by the government or a highly regulated monopoly.

    Classical economists studied the details of how markets actually worked. Then Neo-Classical economists like Friedman and Hayek threw out all of the details, caveats and warnings of classical economics to declare that markets are always good, and monopolies are never bad.

  • rgaura

    Any semblance of democratic rule….

  • rgaura

    You might check out Mike Gravel´s book. He has a plan to establish direct legislation by the people. You could bypass all of the blackmailed by Israel Congress and actually get something done.

  • rgaura

    Biden wrote the Patriot Act, pushed the Crime Bill, the Iraq war, he’s a financial whore beholden to Israel and the most disgusting of neocons. Give me a fucking break. He is a top of the heap slimy predator, and going senile in front of the cameras. Anyone who would vote for him is out of their minds. The fact that the dems even think they can get away with running him is pure jabberwocky.

  • RickW

    No confusion. The “left” is Marxism and the “right” is laissez faire capitalism. Both want the resources, just for different people. It can’t get any simpler than that. That’s why America and it’s “client states” are just elaborate shithole countries.

  • Nylene13

    As most Bernie supporters do.

    We see no difference between Biden and Trump.
    Just as we saw no difference between Hillary and Trump.

    You would think the DNC learned their lesson with Hillary, but I guess not.

    It is going to be Bernie, or Trump will be re-elected.

  • voza0db

    The are NO MODERATES in the DNC&GOP LLC, and until you realize this FACT, you will keep writing stuff like that.

  • voza0db

    Your so called “Left” just gave ANOTHER EVIDENCE they are also willing to use your blood as soil fertilizer when they voted for the CARES Act!

    Try not to waste those $1,200 on vitamins and minerals!

  • 0040

    Untrue . The French Revolution did attack royalty as did the American revolution but not from the modern version of the left . The French Philosophes of the 1840s including the “johnny come lately” Prussian Marx , created what you believe to be the left at the start of the industrial Revolution , which has now consumed most of the world’s natural resources . .

  • 0040

    Marx is not in opposition of Adam Smith , he simply promoted the notion that if stability in profit taking aka capitalism by the elites is desired the masses should be better cared of . His advice has been taken by those that rule with horrendous unforeseen consequences globally. Massive human overpopulation , which has caused a die off of most animals and plants , deadly pollution , rapid microbial mutations/pandemic outbreaks , resource ,depletion , and accelerated Climate changes.

  • 0040

    Tesla invented a method of supplying electricity without wires He has since been written out of history his research seized and buried in the forbidden archives of the deep state. Both Hayek and Friedman were proto Nazis , driven out of Austria for the sin of being Jewish by Hitlers short lived regime. .

  • 0040

    In the end this viral lung infection is minor and not a threat to humanity .The ginned up panic on the other hand has opened up a whole new world of oppressive possibilities and profit generating scams. .

  • 0040

    Farmers markets are based on fraud , since being redefined by Reaganomics and the prices they charge border on profiteering

  • 0040

    The Coronavirus thing is a panic not a pandemic and will soon abate as herd immunity takes hold as it works its way more slowly now though the vast numbers of humans and the few remaining Tigers ?

  • 0040

    Your last 2 sentences ruin a good assessment. Biden has caused far greater damage to living things and for a far longer time than Trump ! A deep state functionary incarnate.

  • 0040

    Bernie has never been electable just another act in the “greatest show on Earth”, the American political circus. Trump in a walkover to be sure, despite Clintonian machinations and the fake news media..

  • chetdude

    Give me an example where Trump has “governed like a king” any more than Obama did.

    Biden the fossil-fuel friendly, bankster owned, corporate capitalist tool is EQUALLY as dangerous to our long-term survival on this Planet as Trump is.

  • chetdude

    The Constitution is an empty, toothless document — it’s the people who implement it that count.

    The ONLY path to democracy that I see at the Federal and most State levels is when a critical mass of the population extracts their minds from the consensus trance and shows up in the halls of power in sufficient numbers to demand Change.

    Of course with a sufficient critical mass of enlightened CITIZENS, no “Constitution” is needed.

  • jemcgloin

    I agree with this.

    I have a button that says A strong people need no leader

    I see the Constitution as a ladder to Enlightenment. It is a framework for peaceful debate.

    Some of us are at that level, but most are not. The Constitution is a mechanism to get from here to there. People need to learn the hard way that freedoms come from responsibility for the freedom of others. The Constitution is there to keep us from sliding too far back, like we may soon if the Constitution is abandoned.

    It’s kind of like the robots in Westworld having to be murdered and raped for 30 years to see outside of the story there were programmed to live.

    When you say no leader is needed, it reminds me of the Dao . To turn the Dao on its head: when the best people have done their work there leader thinks he did it himself.

    I have said before that almost any system would probably work if the people were holding the system accountable, but not every system is designed to evolve with

  • jemcgloin

    The solution to revolution is cultural evolution. Those that protect the mega-rich need to be beaten by peaceful democracy over and over before they can learn that it is actually more powerful than terrorism.

  • jemcgloin

    We the People are the Sovereign Authority behind the Constitution and all legitimate government action.
    The coup is being committed by Trump who is trying to take the Sovereign Authority of We the People and make it his own. Trump governs by personal whim, instead of trying to implement the Will of the People.

    If there is a Deep State it is the global billionaires that corrupt our government with dark money donations, not those whose jobs and agencies were authorized by laws written by Congress.

  • jemcgloin

    There were and are more people against those things than for, but the crazy people with the guns always have more power than their small numbers should give them. The Constitution limits their action, because they have to keep appealing to it to legitimize their actions, to keep those that are against their violence from shutting them down.

    I understand what you are saying about ‘applying modern beliefs to history, but I believe I am applying modern words to an ancient struggle. That between rule by violence and rule by reason.
    If America was only ‘inequality, religious fanaticism, and slavery,’ the Constitution would have never been conceived, much less ratified, because none of those things require a Constitution and it only gets in their way. The birth of the USA was definitely a battle between the old ways and the new, and I call the old way of centralized power through loyalty and terror Right, and the new way of reason and consensus building Left. It matches well with the slavers versus the anti-slavers of old as well as those that want to recreate slavery versus those trying to create justice and democracy today.

    You claim to be analyzing history as it is, but you only see the ugly and are blind to the beautiful. Almost everyone in the world was a slave a thousand years ago, but the peasants, craftsmen, and philosophers of Western Europe were inventing a new way even as their leaders were building empires around the world.

    The idea that American history is only bad is more of a lie than using the words Left and Right to describe the battle between democracy and those that oppose it.

    If inequality, religion, and slavery were the only concerns of the Founders, Washington would have made himself king, or been murdered by those that would take advantage of his ‘weakness.’

    Meanwhile Trump thinks that turning down the crown was the biggest mistake in history, and wants to reverse it by making himself king.

  • jemcgloin

    Did I say anything about the ‘DNC&GOP LLC’

    Left and Right are not parties. They are ways of thinking about the world. Before Nixon the Left and Right were more equally distributed between the parties. After Nixon most of the Right moved to the Republican Party, and most of the Left was chased from the Democrats, if they were ever there at all.

    Read what I said:

    “The Left is moderate. The Right is extreme and the center pretends it doesn’t no the difference.’

    Obviously I am saying moderate is different than center and I am calling the Left moderate, which is not what the DNC says.

    What I am saying is that the DNC are a fake establishment center that calls the moderate Left, ‘extreme’ while they ‘compromise’ with the actual extremists on the Right.

  • jemcgloin

    I won’t vote ‘for’ Biden, but I will vote to save the world from Trump even if it means voting for Biden. I would vote for Nixon to get rid of Trump. Nixon wanted to get away with things in secret. Trump is shredding the Constitution in public. If you think that when he is done, you will get democracy, you need to take him seriously AND literally.

    Biden is the billionaire class’ long game of slowly eroding whatever democracy is left.
    Trump is their shortcut of ending democracy next January.

    Voting for Biden buys us some desperately needed time.

  • jemcgloin

    I’m a Bernie supporter and I voted against Hillary and for Stein.

    But if Trump is re-elected he will recognize NO limits on his power, and the only thing that can save us would be the loyalty of the US military to We the People. Is that what you want to bet your life on? I’ll take my chances on Biden not killing millions of Left organizers and our friends and families, thanks.

    I’ll vote for a failing hack over an expert destroyer and looter of organizations to stay alive.

  • jemcgloin

    You seem happy about Trump winning. What about the Left trying to get between Trump and unlimited power?

  • jemcgloin

    This is what Trump does that is exactly what kings do (and I mean Saudi Kings not the weakened British monarchy):

    Rule by personal Whim instead of executing the law or following the Constitution.
    Publicly call for private loyalty from public servants (who swear to protect the Constitution and We the People, not Trump).
    Call for violence against those they consider disloyal without mentioning the law or due process. (“Somebody should beat that guy up. Maybe I’ll do it,” is what kings and gangsters say. Trump threatened us all with ‘the military, the police, and bikers for Trump.’ That last part was a threat to use paramilitary forces operating with impunity.)
    Refuse any oversight. (Trump just put himself in charge of $2 Trillion and announced he won’t tell Congress what he’s doing with it, and has already abused emergency powers to misappropriate funds to his wall and parade and refuses to give Congress almost anything they ask for.)
    Obstruct investigations into him and his allies. (Every time he publicly attacked Sessions, Mueller, or Rosenstein for not protecting him, he was obstructing justice.)
    Call for violence against journalists, like imitating a Montana politician that ‘body slammed’ a reporter, and saying he probably got re-elected for it.
    Say, ‘The Press is the enemy of the People.’
    Take payments and ‘dirt’ from foreign governments, then call the Emoluments Clause ‘phony.’
    Ally with foreign powers by asking for information to use against political opponents (Russia (before he was elected), then when president asking Ukraine in private, and China on TV. On top of this he announced on TV that he would take, and use ‘information’ from foreign governments BEFORE he called the FBI. This is exactly what the Founders used as an example of a High Crime when writing the Impeachment Clause.)
    Talks about being in office for ‘four terms, maybe five,’ then says ‘president for life is just like king,’ and Americans should ‘sit in attention’ for him with ‘fervor.’
    Claim that his position means that he “can do anything that I want to.’

    The President of the USA is not authorized to do any of these things.Trump is taking the worst thing that every president ever did, and doing them all one better. Did Obama do things I would have impeached him for? Most definitely. Did I literally fear for my life because Obama was president? Not even after he coordinated all of the attacks on our Occupy camps. Did I ever wonder if Obama would refuse to leave office? Never. Trump says he will be there for ’20 years.’

    The president is supposed to execute the law and defend our nation from attack, including our elections. Trump has spent four years accusing the entire US Intelligence Community of being treasonous against HIM, never releasing a shred of actual evidence. I’m pretty sure that the president has access to evidence. Where is it? (Carter Page was under investigation as possible Russian asset, since long before Trump ran for president. He doesn’t count.)

    And the fact that Trump thinks that a coup would be against HIM, and not We the People shows that he thinks that HE is the Sovereign Authority, not the People. He is taking Our power and calling it his own. The ‘coup’ is Trump’s coup, just like the ‘lies’ and the ‘frauds.’

    Trump is a classic wannabe dictator doing and saying all of the things that they always say and do. South American dictators murdered an average of 2% of their populations. In the USA that is 6 million people.

    Take Trump seriously AND literally.

  • jemcgloin

    Herd immunity is what is left after most people die.

  • jemcgloin

    I think that those are not good definitions.

    First of all, Marx didn’t have a plan. I read the entire Collected Works of Marx twice looking for it. Its not there. Marxism is a criticism of capitalism and a prediction that its instability would force workers to take over eventually. What they do when they take over is up to them.
    Capitalism is a plan to give as much power to the owners of capital as possible as soon as possible. Capitalism’ is a rhetorical sleight of hand that makes capital the most important part of markets in everyone’s minds. It is a plan to manipulate markets and governments to move wealth to the owners of capital.
    Socialism is a straw man that the Capitalists throw up whenever anyone questions their undeserved power and wealth.
    Socialism is not a plan.

    Likewise, Left and Right are not plans but ways of thinking about political power, how it is wielded, and what it is used for.

    Right wants the resources for themselves and think those ends justify any means.
    Left wants the resources for everyone, and understand that the means are the ends, because the end is never actually reached.

    The dichotomy between capitalism and socialism is false. It is designed to hide more than illuminate.

    They are not opposites, so they cannot be a dichotomy, and few people actually know what the words mean, so they cannot illuminate.

    If the Left gave up the word socialism and just demanded economic, social, and environmental justice in plain modern language, it would be harder for them to do Red Scares for another century.

  • jemcgloin

    Biden may work for the Deep State, but Trump is their dream come true. It would take ten or twenty Bidens and Hillarys to destroy the Constitution for them. Trump is passing Biden and zooming toward the finish line.

  • RickW

    Don’t need “plans”.
    Marx = workers own the loot
    Capitalism = capital owns the loot.
    How each of them get to this “goal” are myriad.

  • rgaura

    Not so. Viruses move through a population, take out the weak, and everyone else gets stronger, and lifetime immunity. Viruses evolved with us, and provide a protective function. Kids who get lots of viruses do not get asthma. This may not apply to bioengineered viruses. the US has been bioengineering many viruses to make them more dangerous, and to use as weapons.

  • rgaura

    Jem, they are both herding us to global fascism. You need to see that Trump/Biden are the same agenda. Vote Green, and revolt, because the vote, if it happens will be jiggered ten ways from sunday.
    The derivatives market has collapsed, global financial infrastructure will follow. The virus scare will push for vaccine mandates, chips, and total surveillance and control. Bail ins of 25-50% are going to happen. Have 3 weeks of supplies and cash on hand. There will be hyper inflation for a period, then a global currency, probably digital. We must expose and resist. Do not let them jab you or your loved ones. They have kill switches in them, which can be triggered later for the non compliant.
    Both parties are in on it.

  • sabelmouse

    exactly what gates/pharm do NOT want! imagine he were to put his money into nutrition and sanitation.

  • sabelmouse

    herd immunity for mass hysteria?

  • sabelmouse

    that CAN happen but not wit a cold 😉

  • voza0db

    Well… You say “left is moderate” which is not accurate. You say “right is extreme” which is not accurate. So what’s the point of debating on such erroneous starting points?! There’s no point…

  • jemcgloin

    You say, ‘take out the weak.’ That means they die. The Left is supposed to be for healthcare, not ‘taking out the weak.’ And you only have immunity until the virus mutates. That is why you need a new flu shot every year.

    When the same people are telling me that my Republic is bad because it doesn’t have universal healthcare are telling me that we should just watch a virus ‘take out the weak,’ the kind of survival-of-the-fittest Right-Wing propaganda that is on Fox, I start to wonder, who’s side are you on?

  • 0040

    Mass hysteria is a mental state similar to sexual arousal , humans are genetically hardwired to partake of it occasionally.

  • sabelmouse


  • 0040

    Biden/Clinton have been around for decades perverting and corrupting every aspect of US politics , Trump is a new arrival. It is of no consequence which one occupies the POTUS throne.

  • 0040

    Correction , after some die.

  • 0040

    How could you possible arrive at that conclusion . The bubble you live in must be very opaque.

  • jemcgloin

    The ‘loot’ is the result of the worker’s productivity. When the capitalists take most of that productivity it is loot, because it is stolen.
    When the workers get most of their productivity it is not loot because they made it. It is the fruit of their labor.

    How come you can’t tell the difference?

    Capitalism has a definite plan that is in action. Manipulate markets, manipulate media, manipulate governments. Use these manipulations to centralize all wealth and power in the hands of a few thousand global billionaires so they can use it to compete in their little parlor game of world domination. They now own half of all wealth in the world, claiming to be as productive as the other 7.5 billion of us.
    Right now Trump, Putin, and Xi are at the top of the score board. (Biden wouldn’t be in the game even if he won the presidency.)
    The ideology of the Right is that they are ‘more equal’ than the rest of us and since they are more ‘fit’ which means they have more weapons and willingness to use them, they should subjugate the rest of us to their will.

    Socialism predicts (which is not the same as a plan) that, since capitalism constantly attacks the workers by stealing more and more of their productivity, the workers will have to revolt over and over to slowly take power from the capitalists one concession at a time.
    The Constitution and its Amendments, and the laws written under it ARE those Concessions. The capitalists didn’t want every citizen to be politically equal to them. We the People forced them to put that in the Constitution, because even though it was the first sentence in the Declaration of Independence, the mega-rich thought they could leave equality out of the Constitution.
    Where does the 40 hour week, the weekend, the end of child labor, health and safety rules, etc, become official policy? In the Constitution and the laws written under it.

    If Marx had a plan, it was democracy, and democracy doesn’t just pop into being. Democracy is a long hard process that requires dialogue among equals. f they can kill anyone that speaks up, there is no dialogue.

    If you let Trump shred the Constitution all of those things won over hundreds of years of surviving and triumphing over terror from the mega-rich goes up in smoke, and we have to start all over again.

    All of the attacks on Constitution from the Left are attacks on Our own victories, and those attacks are engineered by people that keep telling you that the problem isn’t the rich and violent who corrupt those victories, but the victories themselves. The Constitution that says you are equal and demands that we debate and vote instead of fight to the death is what they are afraid of.
    If they liked the Constitution, they wouldn’t let Trump attack it so viciously.

    See the big picture. History is ten thousand years old, and the idea of a Constitution is only a few hundred years old. We need to perfect it, not abandon it.
    Stop throwing away the victories of the peaceful, because the violent haven’t stopped attacking us yet.

  • jemcgloin

    I was saying that Hillary and the DNC were herding us into global fascism a decade ago. But with the DNC it is a 20 or 30 year mission, painstakingly crafted and done in secret.
    Trump looked at how the system was set up to promote and protect billionaires even if they ‘kill someone on FIfth Avenue,” and said, these Democrats are taking too long, I can use the media to make myself king NOW.

    ‘Centrist’ Democrats are the slow careful strategy that gives us time and space to organize for peace, equality, and democracy. Trump and his far Right base are the let’s just kill everyone and get this over strategy.

    The peaceful battle ground is the US Constitution. If you give up the Constitution, then we have a bloody battleground, the Divided States of AmeriKKKa that the violent Right has been trying to create since they demanded slavery be in the Constitution, which the Left took later out. The terrorist Right owns most of the 330 million guns in the US. They have been itching for a purge for generations, and the Left in the USA thinks that if their ‘Chosen One’ is re-elected you will get the same result as Biden?

    What is to stop Right-Wing paramilitary death squads from kidnapping, torturing and murdering critics of the president, with full impunity? When everyone on this and other Left sites (that they have the NSA to track us with) is dead, where is your revolution? Trump is using the cover a virus to take our all of the Inspector Generals that limit his action. Biden wouldn’t dare do anything that bold.
    Like Nixon, the Democrats try to get away with their crimes in secret. Trump just goes on TV and says, I would take information from foreign governments, use it, and then probably call the FBI afterward. His base says Trump is not colluding with Russian, but we like Russian intelligence better than US Intelligence anyway. That’s treason by a third of the country led from the Oval Office. They don’t have super-majorities to write an amendment that says the president can take the side of our adversaries. The just have guns and greed, and a willingness to lie and kill.

    You will think you are peacefully blocking traffic, and the worst that can happen is rubber bullets, and suddenly they will be firing into the crowd with a heavy machine gun, and you will see giant holes ripped into the bodies of peaceful protesters. And Fox will show some anarchist (who’s really an FBI agent) in a mask throwing rocks and say ‘protests turned violent today,’ without mentioning that the death toll is fifty peaceful protesters.

    Argentina was once the second richest country in the world with elections, etc, and then it was a bloodbath, and it has still not really recovered a hundred years later.

    The illusion of democracy means that they have to justify their actions to maintain legitimacy. The reality of tyranny is that they just kill or torture anyone they want.

    Look at it this way. If you are opposed to the US government, would you rather have Biden slipping into senility, or Trump pointing at people and saying ‘someone should beat that guy up’ and calling neo-nazis fine people? Which is easier to oppose?

    Anyone that thinks Trump is the same as Biden is either oblivious to the actual history of the world, or is actually on Trump’s side, trying to create a bloodbath in the USA.

    The average CIA backed dictatorship killed 2% of the their populations (thanks to KZ for correcting my math). 2% of 325 million people is 6 million dead. Everything that Trump has said and done screams that he would unleash those who keep saying they want to ‘kill all the liberals.’ You say, ‘I’m not a liberal, I’m a…’ They don’t care what you call yourself. If you talk about helping poor people, they will call you a ‘liberal’ and torture you until they give you the names of you family and friends.

    Trump keeps saying that he wants to be king and emulates dictators. He told Kim, in North Korea, that Americans should ‘ sit in attention’ for him ‘ with fervor,’ like they do in NK, where the other option is starvation or death.

    The violent have always dominated the peaceful with torture and terror. The Constitution is a triumph of the peaceful who have been able to put controls on the violent. It may be that peaceful politicians also order some torture, terror, and starvation, but at least it is not their favorite strategy.

    I have argued against lesser evil voting for decades, but when the greater evil keeps talking about mass political violence, is allied with the violent terrorist right that commits 90% of hate crimes and 70% of mass murders, and is actively attacking ALL limits on his power, to say that Trump is not a threat is just suicidal. I don’t even believe in absolutes like evil, but Trump is so bad, evil is the only word that fully describes him.

    If Biden wins, I will continue to organize for more solidarity, investment in humans, and peace, and Biden will oppose me.

    If Trump wins, I’m going into hiding.

  • jemcgloin

    ‘Trump in a walkover…” “fake news media…” The virus is not really dangerous… These are things I hear over in the Fox news bubble.

    I’m not under the illusion that corporate media is real, but I also don’t use Fox slogans to get my points across.

  • jemcgloin

    I did vote Green. Trump won. A friend of mine, a working stiff who I could never get interested in politics at all took me aside, and said, so did you vote for Trump? I said of course not. You can’t put a pathological liar in charge of the law and expect anything but disaster. He said, you voted for Hillary? I said, No I voted against Hillary and you were supposed to vote against Trump. Well he didn’t and he won’t this time either. He doesn’t know what is going on. He just knows that he’s angry and Trump is angry.

    The Republican Party loves Trump and they are not going to vote for a Green. The Democratic loyalists love Biden and they are not going to vote for a Green. The Greens aren’t registering tens of millions of non-voters. Who do you think is voting Green in this election? This is a fight between the illusion of democracy (which is on the ladder to real democracy) or the cold reality of unlimited state terror from the most advance weapons and intelligence systems in history.

    I keep telling centrist Democrat voters that they need to choose a side and welcome the Left and our ideas, because the alternative is Trump and the Right. I tell them you can’t have half a living baby and you can’t have half a living Constitution, so you have to oppose the Right, not compromise with them.

    I am telling the Left, you need to choose a side. If you ally with the Right to end the Constitution over implementing it, then 800 years of revolution and evolution go out the window and everything we have fought for since Robin Hood (the myth is based on something) will be gone.

    No Republican will be voting Green in this election. No Democrat will be voting Green in this election.
    I’ll be voting for the corrupt doddering old man to save the lives of my friends.

  • jemcgloin

    Sure and lots of people in Chile were saying there is no difference between Allende and Pinochet.

  • jemcgloin

    Okay after some die. Fair correction, depending on the disease. But if you forsake healthcare, which can include ‘social distancing’ then you get far more dying.
    Why are you guys taking the same propaganda line as Trump and Fox, claiming this is not serious?

  • jemcgloin

    I’m not even going to entertain the idea that this is a ‘cold.’

  • sabelmouse


  • jemcgloin

    ‘a good assessment?’ So you agree that Trump rules as if he is king?

    You just think that this particular king won’t kill his critics? That seems like a bad assumption based on the fact that his base commits 90% of hate crimes and 70% of all mass murders, which is basically all of mass political murders since the rest are personal not the Left. The Right has also assassinated JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcolm X (as soon as he turned peaceful), abortion doctors, etc.

    Democrats may be fascists, but they are at least subtle enough to not put babies in jail.

    When Trump says he could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and get away with it, I believe him. I believe that he could shoot someone, or at least order it, and that he would do it in public to terrorize the rest of us, and that his base would cheer him on and protect him.

    Please explain to me what you think the Deep State is.

  • Howard
  • 0040

    Those you mention were assassinated during the Johnson regime . I do believe Johnson considered himself a Democratic liberal ? In the so called western democracies the deep state is always part of the government , managed by senior bureaucrats at the behest of those who own them. Putin gave a wonderful description of the deep state globally in his interviews with Oliver Stone.

  • Nylene13

    What makes you think Biden is any better than Trump? The question with Biden is, who is going to be his VP? I suspect Hillary. Then Biden will get too sick to continue and -there we are.

    Hitler became the ruler of Germany because he was considered the ‘lesser evil’ of the other guy.

    And who knows? Maybe he Was!

  • RickW

    What difference? ALL productivity relies on extraction of natural recourses (until we can synthesize on a molecular level) and whichever side owns the resources, owns production. Neither the Marxist nor the Capitalists care one whit for the environment when it comes to extracting said resources – only which gets to “own” them.
    Why do you have to complicate our present penchant for unrestricted extractivism, when the only pertinent decision is who owns them?

  • chetdude

    Wonderful example of TDS – thank you…

  • chetdude

    “I have a button that says. ‘A strong people need no leader.’ But Americans are not yet a strong people”

    Until a critical mass GETS STRONG — the Duopoly is going to continue f*cking us over…

  • Collectivist

    Bringing on Killary will only strengthen the Trump cultists and expand his base.

    I don’t see Michelle accepting the invitation. She, supposedly, hates politics.

    Harris or Abrams might bite.
    Either one of them are useless.

    Even Bernie, as VP, is unacceptable.

  • I see you’ve broken out the good stash . . .

  • jemcgloin

    So the Left is not moderate, and the Right is not extreme? Thanks for clearing that up, because I was pretty sure that those who lie to promote a combination of division, greed, and violence, were extreme and those who seek truth, equality, justice, investing in all, and peace were moderate. I guess I had it backwards. Maybe I should be a Centrist Democrat because they think the Left is extreme and the Right is not, also.

  • voza0db

    Forget political parties… That’s the fundamental point you persist not to acknowledge.

  • jemcgloin

    By the way, I have an admission to make, I am trying to use words that describe reality, rather than use words that hide reality.

    If you like, instead of Left and Right, substitute the Violent and the Peaceful.

    The idea that Right is Republicans and capitalism and left is Democrats and socialism is not really helping anything. We have been stuck in this dichotomy for over hundred years and we are all losing. It is close enough to true for people to believe it, but what this really does is hide the underlying values and actions that divide us, and limit our possibilities.

    As a radical (in the mathematical metaphor of looking for the root of a problem) I am trying to fix the definitions of words that have been twisted by corporate media and the Republican wordsmiths like Frank Luntz. (Look him up if you don’t know him. He is quite dangerous.)

    If you ask a Republican who the Left is, they will say Democrats. Does anyone on here believe that Democrats are the Left? They call themselves moderate, but they are not. They help corporate media sell an imaginary Center that is actually the wants of global billionaires disguised as a ‘compromise’ between Left and Right. The wants of global billionaires are extreme. The Centrists are still protecting ‘free trade,’ even though Trump’s base and the Left are both against it. How is something that only corporations and their shareholders want a compromise? Its an illusion.

    Some people believe that we should meet as equals and talk, until we are able to create win/win solutions and find consensus on them. This includes most anarchists, most socialists, and even many ‘capitalist’ Democrats, who only call themselves capitalists because ‘real news’ tells them that socialism is bad and the only other choice is capitalism. I call these people who believe that the point of society is cooperation, the Left.

    Other people think they are ‘more equal,’ that they are ‘the fittest,’ and that society is supposed be a violent competition for control for resources and the government. They lie and preach and combination of division (because Divide and Conquer is the oldest trick in the 1% book), greed, and violence. They claim they are against government, but really only want to control the police and military so they can use them against the rest of us. They complain about ‘free stuff’ from the government except when they are demanding fee stuff from the government.

    This division between those who believe in violent competition and those that believe in peaceful cooperation is as old as civilization, if not older. This division even shows up in brain science.

    So when I say Left and Right, I am not talking about capitalists versus socialists, which leaves out many who are neither, doesn’t describe actual opposites, and is actually a dichotomy designed by capitalists to empower themselves at the expense of everyone else.

    The definitions being used in modern discourse for decades are designed to keep people in line, not to help them understand reality. If we do not change the definitions so that they describe reality, the People are going to stay in the corporate media ‘matrix’ that is designed to treat them like cattle, not equal citizens with opinions.

    The Right is extreme because they believe they should subjugate the rest of us with violence. The left is moderate because we believe in making everyone better off.

    This trick of the fake establishment ‘Center’ that calls itself moderate even as most people reject it by not participating (which is exactly what they mega-rich want), of equating the lying, greedy, violent dividers, with the truth seeking, sharing, peaceful uniters as equally extreme is a rhetorical trick meant to help the Right at the expense of the Left.

    Until the Left who are the real moderates use language that is accurate, we will be making arguments in language that is designed to make our arguments sound extreme, while the fake center claims violent greedy extremism is ‘moderate.’

    The political spectrum that almost everyone refers to is a lie. the center is not moderate. The Right is extreme because they kill people. The Left is moderate because we don’t.

    The conversation is determined by language and the conversation controls the policies. Fix the language.

  • Kapricorn4

    Not only are US elections fixed, they are fake.

  • chetdude

    Tell that to the 100,000 dead people…so far…

    Even covering in place we haven’t hit the peak.

    Buy a clue!

  • chetdude

    Your tin-foil hat is slipping…

  • chetdude

    Trump “rules” about the same way that Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, Dick Cheney/gwBush and Obama did…

    Buy a clue…

  • chetdude

    The “Deep State” is the apparatus set up by the National Security Act of 1947* (CIA, DIA, etc) coupled with the corporate-congressional nexus that was setup to wage the “Forever Wars” (c.1944) as enforcers in USAmerica’s (Owner/Donor Class’) project to dominate the post-WWII global economy.

    It’s a REAL thing and is the final arbiter working behind the scenes and will stop at nothing to insure that no one upsets their plans.

    Got it?

    * Signed by “democrat” Harry Truman and expanded by every goddamn pResident since — a major piece of which was due to end a couple weeks ago but was EXTENDED by Pelosi’s House and McConnell’s Senate.

  • chetdude

    Tell me about this marvelous “Constitution” you talk about.

    In particular, please explain the most egregiously undemocratic aspects of is like the EC, the Senate, winner take all, etc. ‘K?

  • chetdude

    There’s a DIFFERENCE between the major goals and political solutions of Sanders and AOC…(Allende)

    And the fossil-fueled capitalist consumption, exploitation and pollution machine friendly world view of Biden and Trump (Pinochet).

    And no one in Chile was saying there’s no difference between Allende and Pinochet…FAIL! Try again…

  • chetdude

    WTF is this fascination with the “constitution” that’s no better than the people who pretend to “follow” it while violating the alleged spirit of it – the spirit that appears ONLY in the Preamble but was never implemented in the actual Articles with the minor exception of the 1st Amendment…for those who own the presses…

  • chetdude

    In the General election, Sanders was entirely ELECTABLE…

    Alas, our profoundly undemocratic system allowed the corporate-wing of the Democratic(sic) party to block his nomination…

  • chetdude

    The world is doing just fine working around Trump — strengthening their responses to capitalist AGW and opposing USAmerica’s wars when they can.

    As are some of the largest, most affluent states.

    WHAT DEMOCRACY? There has never been a HINT of “democracy” at the Federal Level in this country and damn little of it at state levels…maybe a wisp of it in some local areas.

    I’m coming around to the view that Trump would bring about the complete disintegration of the Planet-Killing Empire faster than Biden would — so you go ahead and make your choice and allow us to make ours…

  • jemcgloin

    Trump is the most aggressive and least self controlled member of that empire.

    Your hopes are misguided.

    Out if the frying pan and into the furnace.

  • jemcgloin

    Without the Constitution and the laws written under it, there is only gangs of people roaming around robbing, killing, and raping, until some dictator kills enough people to impose order.

    Democracy is about hard work, not letting society fall apart.

  • jemcgloin

    There is a difference between Democrats and Republicans too. One side is designed to win and the other side is designed do lose.
    Until the Left in the US find a way to start winning again, the world is screwed.

    Biden is a corporate hack. Trump is a wannabe King. That’s also different.

    Everything Trump says screams that he would kill millions for a dollar. Biden is more subtle.

  • jemcgloin

    Go ahead and tell me what you want to change, and let’s start writing an amendment to make it happen. What is your strategy, let Trump use the Senate for a rubber stamp, like he did when they refused evidence and witnesses in his trial?

    How is a dictator with a rubber stamp Senate closer to democracy?

    The real difference between Allende and Pinochet is that Allende was following their Constitution, then Pinochet ignored it and killed people instead.

    Without an orderly PROCESS for moving forward democratically, society goes backward violently. Violence, without due process of law is automatically not equal and not democratic.
    You are not recommending a better system, but a power vacuum.
    And that vacuum would be where the Sovereign Authority over Our government, neglected as it is by We the People, used to be.

    Don’t it always seem to go that you don’t know what you’ve got too it’s gone. -Joni Mitchell.

  • 0040

    Your claim that 100,000 have died of Coronavirus is nonsense as anyone that can interpret stats will soon discover. Everyday 7000 American die a many of health related issues and not a mild flu virus from which 99.9% of us recover from and become immune to. Grab a grip on reality. Your hair’s on fire , quick , get a bucket of water and dowse your head !

  • Kapricorn4

    What would be more revealing are the total number of deaths recorded in the US, no matter what the cause, for succeeding years, since record keeping began.

  • 0040

    As can be easily verified with a simple internet search , each day in America there are 7000 + or – recorded deaths in America for at least the the last decade.

  • kevinzeese

    No, actually more than 100,000 have died from COVID-19.

    See https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

  • chetdude

    Your delusions are now dangerous to fatal.

    April 12, 2020 – 18:03 GMT

    Global Covid-19 count:
    1,532,439 Cases
    113,233 Dead

  • chetdude

    CORRECTION: Globally the ACTUAL number is over 7% death rate. That’s hardly a “mild flu”…

    So you’re suggesting that you’re good with 25 million USAmericans dead to “prove your point”? That puts you up in the running with some of the worst mass murderers in history.

    Oh, by the way, you DO realize that it’s likely that surviving Covid-19 does NOT grant permanent immunity.

  • chetdude

    So I guess the first time you got a cold it granted you “lifetime immunity” and you’ve never gotten one again?

    Good Grief…

  • chetdude

    Great Britain does not have a “Constitution”…

    Democracy is about enabling everyone within a Community to have a say in governing it. It’s a state of mind with mechanisms and procedures for effective input to the decision making process and mutual consent to abide by the results.

    No silly piece of hemp paper with hypocritical, empty words needed.

  • chetdude

    Update: ACTUAL death rate for closed cases is 21%.

    Hardly a “mild case of flu”…

  • chetdude

    You’ve entirely missed my essential point.

    Top-down DOES NOT WORK — whether it’s “Constitution” (with many profoundly undemocratic provisions built into it), dictatorship, Oligarchy, Plutocracy, etc.

    And yet you still advocate for it…

  • chetdude

    Actually in terms of increasing their personal wealth and power, the beneficiaries at the top of both wings of the One True Party are winning.

    WTF makes you think “Trump is a wannabe King” — all he really wants is the same thing Pelosi and the Kochs, Gates and Kerrey want — defend and increase their personal wealth.

  • Nylene13

    I in NO WAY meant to imply that Hillary as VP was acceptable to me.

  • chetdude

    Current global death toll from Covid-19: over 22%..

  • rgaura

    When you look at the faulty testing, and the way they are reporting deaths, there is actually no increase in deaths either in europe or US, they are just calling every death from other sources corona death. Do a little reading, or check out Del Bigtree, he has covered this thoroughly. Its a huge hype. Just a regular flu season with additional toxic air, and electromagnetic poisoning. Multiple stressors.

  • jemcgloin

    Great Britain has numerous documents that limit the power of the monacrchy, and the parliament, including the Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights.

  • jemcgloin

    Left and Right aren’t the names of parties. That is the fundamental point you refuse to acknowledge. I’m not talking about Parties when I say left and right.

  • jemcgloin

    Trump is different from all of them.

    Nixon wanted to get away with things in secret, and resigned when caught. Trump does worse things then all of them put together, and he does it on TV, because that is how you end all limits on the president’s power.

  • jemcgloin

    Even if you assume Biden and Trump have the same goals, Trump is better at achieving those goals.

  • jemcgloin

    We the People have Trump Derangement Syndrome because Trump is deranged and he is making the rest of us sick.

    You asked me how Trump governs like a King. I listed many ways that Trump acts exactly as if he were king, in ways that are specifically prohibited by the Constitution, and in ways that other presidents never have.

    You didn’t address any of them, you just went to a typical Trump supporter meme, ‘TDS.’

    What other president said, ‘The Press is the enemy of the People?’ and called for violence against journalists?

    Trump didn’t say corporate media is the enemy of the people. He said the Press, which is specifically protected by the Constitution is the enemy of the People. He imitates a reporter getting body slammed by a politician. Is that your idea of democracy?

    Maybe you don’t like the Constitution, but you didn’t run for office under it, and you don’t claim it says you can so anything you want with government power.

    Trump takes the worst thing any other president did, and does it one better.

    Take Trump seriously and literally.

  • jemcgloin

    Stop lying about what I say. I never said a Democrat can’t be a fascist.

    The violent are fascists and the peaceful are not fascists.

    The Right is violent and the actual Left is peaceful.

    Nobody is thinking about the Green Party Right now.

    If there was going to be a Green Party victory it was in 2016. I voted Green in 2016, and not for the first time.

    Jill stein got a little more than 1% of the vote, and Gary Johnson got a little more than 3% of the vote. This was when the two most unpopular candidates in presidential polling history, Trump and Hillary, were the corporate candidates.

    Now trump is wildly popular with Republicans, and Biden is not nearly as unpopular with Democrats as Hillary.

    There is no reason except wishful thinking to think the Greens are going to win.

  • jemcgloin

    I don’t click on links in comment pages, so you need to explain their argument, and you need to describe how to find them without clicking on your link.

  • jemcgloin

    The fault in the testing is the lack of testing, because Trump would rather pretend that this isn’t happening, than have the data to actually fight this thing and know when to re-open.

  • jemcgloin

    The word ‘capitalism’ wasn’t coined until fifty years after the Wealth Of Nations was published by Adam Smith in 1776. Smith studied markets, not capitalism. And if capitalism just meant markets (as corporate media would like you to believe), we would just call them markets.

  • jemcgloin

    Your point about resources and who owns them is important.

    I would argue that We the People own the resources and that democracy should decide how they are used. That doesn’t meant that we can’t let markets make most of the decisions, if we think we are making good decisions.

    ‘Capitalists’ claim that if democracy decides how to distribute resources, that is ‘socialism.’ I just all it democracy.

  • RickW

    it is a typical shared monopoly created for the ownership class to milk the non-ownership masses.

  • voza0db

    That’s even worse… You’re just talking of your personnel thoughts and definitions about a sub-system rigged to don’t care about you.

    But keep talking about Left and Right and just forget about it.

  • Nylene13

    We don’t want Trump to achieve his goals!

  • Nylene13

    Bernie just endorsed Biden. I am so Depressed.
    Well at least now I can resign from the Democrat Party.

  • Nonsense. Biden has a proven track record of ugly accomplishments, though he may be too far gone mentally to be the effective tool for Big Money and the determined war-mongerer of bygone days, and so he’ll cooperate fully with his handlers from the Right-wing corporatist camp of the Democratic Party in harmonious collusion with the Republican Party’s leadership. Trump is an inept, vain and self-serving calculator to the end, but he’s shown a propensity for throwing temper tantrums that regularly throw his would-be handlers into disarray.

    Biden is clearly the more effective evil.

  • chetdude

    More TDS – you’ve internalized the ultra-partisan memes well…

    As for Trump and Biden, Pelosi and McConnell, Biden and the rest – I take them VERY seriously. That’s why I moved my family and me to a fairly safe and potentially self-sustainable bio-region…

  • chetdude

    Nixon resigned when it was clear that he would be impeached AND removed and was offered a complete pardon from the tool that was to be installed in his place.

    Trump is the best fund-raising tool (to fool the rubes) that the corporate/plutocrat owned democratic(sic) party has ever had.

  • chetdude

    PS: It was Pelosi’s HOUSE that just voted to extend the Patriot act that allowed Trump to retain national security state police powers.

  • chetdude

    And yet it didn’t save them from Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and now Boris Johnson screwing the People…

  • chetdude

    It sure is great to see what a General Strike can do to eviscerate the phony house of cards “economy”!

  • chetdude

    Most ultra-partisan dems appear to be inflicted with TDS because they’ve watched way too much MSDNC…

  • jemcgloin

    Bernie disagrees with you. Bernie supporters don’t have to agree with Bernie, but you might want to think about why he opposes Trump so much.

  • jemcgloin

    I fear that Trump will kill critics without any due process. Trump keeps threatening violence against citizens and journalists, and says nothing to make me believe he is not capable of ordering the murder of millions. I don’t want to find out whether ‘the military, the police, and bikers for Trump’ will follow his orders.

  • jemcgloin

    You still haven’t addressed my list of things that kings do, and Trump also does, but presidents are not authorized to do.

    Show me how Bush and Obama did all of those things, and maybe I’ll agree. I see Trump as completely different than any American President in the 20th century.

    Show me evidence that I am your. You asked me a question. I answered it, and you ignored the answer.

  • jemcgloin

    Compare the British monarchy which is severely to the Saudi Monarchy, which ignores its Constitution and does whatever it wants, including assassinating a U.S. journalist.

    The universe isn’t all or nothing. Government is a beast you have to reign in all the time. The Constitution is a leash. It is We the People putting on paper the concessions that we have won over a thousand years. We need to force another thousand years of Concessions, not start over from scratch. Trump loves the Saudis because the Crowned Prince gets to behead subjects (they are not even citizens) who he doesn’t like.

  • jemcgloin

    The Constitution did not give the powers of the king to presidents. It specifically separates the Authority for government action from the execution of government action. Trump keeps exercising Our Authority in his name. It is a public attack on our freedom. It is a coup against Our Authority.

    “The president of the United States calls the shots,” Trump said yesterday. No. We the People call the shots. The president is supposed to hold the cue, and hit the cue ball where and how we tell him to.

    The thing that Trump does that is completely different from other presidents is to not even pretend, EVER, that he is trying to carry out the Constitution, the law, or that We the People are the Sovereign Authority behind the government, an authority We won through hundreds of years of fighting back against tyranny.

    Trump governs by PERSONAL WHIM. He does and says whatever pops into his head, and he measures EVERY decision, by how it affects TRUMP, and he doesn’t even PRETEND that he is following the will of the People.

    If Trump is still in the White House in February, the gloves will come off and by the end of his second term, people will be dying for his WHIMS.

    Trump demands private loyalty. Fealty is a feature of monarchy.
    Trump threatens citizens with violence, without mention of the law or due process. State terror of critics and journalists is a feature of monarchy. How did we get rid of Jim Crow (state terror at the state level against minorities, LGBTQs, and ‘liberals.” We used the Constitution to end that.
    Trump refuses ALL Oversight of his activities. ALL. No other president just said NO you can’t have anything. Nixon ordered his staff to testify. Trump ordered his staff and any other governmnet employee not too. Nixon gave up the tapes when ordered. Nixon resigned when caught. Trump was caught asking Ukraine for ‘information’ in private, so he asked China for ‘information’ on TV.

    I hope we are alive so you can tell me you told me so, but if you are being tortured for the names of other ‘socialists,’ please leave me out of it.

    ‘When someone shows you who they are, believe them.’
    -Maya Angelou.

    ‘Our nation was born as the first great experiment in modern democracy. We seek to rescue that heritage from the erosion of citizen participation. Moreover, we seek to dissolve the grip of the ideology, intoned by big-money interests for more than twenty years, that government is intrinsically undesirable and destructive of liberty and that elected officials should rightly “starve the beast” by slashing all spending on social program, in the name of freedom. We challenge that tactic by calling on all Americans to think deeply about the meaning of government of the people, by the people, and for the people. In a democracy, individuals come together to form structures of governance that protect and advance the common good. We the citizens are the government, and we the citizens can direct it to fulfill its finest goals and purposes. Our citizens must not permit usurpation of their authority by acts of individuals and government agencies that isolate or insulate government from their oversight and control. We, the People, have a responsibility to participate in self-government through all the means that our Constitution provides.’

    That is from introduction to the Green Party Platform. Even the Green Party is trying to advance democracy using the Constitution, not by shredding it.

  • jemcgloin

    I am not arguing for top down. I am arguing that the Constitution officially puts the bottom in charge, and the only reason that it doesn’t happen is that most of the bottom is either too lazy to govern, or too busy attacking the good parts of the system to remove the bad parts.

    You want to throw the baby out with the bath water. You want the People to organize and go to Congress to demand change, but you don’t want there to be a Congress when they get there.

    WHAT IS YOUR ACTUAL PLAN? What would you do different? Once you help the Republican Party take control of ‘the military, the police, and bikers for Trump,” and take away any limits on their power, except protesting, how do you think they will treat protesters?
    If meek, Constitutional lawyer Obama was willing to assassinate an American Citizen overseas (with the excuse that he was fighting against us, and coordinate the attacks on Occupy camps around the Country, and Water Protectors) and peaceful protesters were unable to stand in his way, what do you think Trump, who openly acts like a king and talks about being president for life will do?

    When you help the Right end the Constitution and create a political vacuum for the violent to step into, who does that turn into democracy? Ask the ‘Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo’ about protesting without a Constitution.


  • jemcgloin

    Here is the latest from Trump’s coup against We the People:

    ‘Asked what provisions of the Constitution gave him the power to override the states if they wanted to remain closed, he said, “Numerous provisions,” without naming any. “When somebody’s the president of the United States, the authority is total.”’ -NY Times, this morning.

    ‘When somebody’s the president of the United States, the Authority is total.’

    It doesn’t get any more top down than that. The Constitution is far less top down than that.

  • 0040

    I never claimed Mr Smith coined the term ? Mr Smith was a Scottish profiteer who was worried that the markets in tobacco his Scottish friends were exploiting was becoming unstable and would lead to revolution in the American colonies . He was right.

  • chetdude

    He’s a master at “saying stuff” just to get your poor little heads spinning on your necks.

    Just because he says it that doesn’t mean he can or even will do it…

    The past 3 years tells us that he won’t…

  • chetdude

    “I am arguing that the Constitution officially puts the bottom in charge”

    And there’s the root of your fallacious assumptions. Read it again for comprehension this time.

  • chetdude

    Them the Elites (White, Male, Property owners — within property include slaves, women and children) wrote that document with profoundly UNDEMOCRATIC features to protect and expand their wealth and privileges above all else – including, from each other in the Elite Class. That may be where you got confused — you assume that their protections from each other mean that the mass of us in the bottom 90% are protected too.

    We aren’t…

  • chetdude

    Even if your first paragraph were true (I assert that it isn’t, but whatever), Congress has completely given up their ‘powers’ to the Imperial Presidency since the days of Nixon.

  • rgaura

    Maybe you need to just realize that you are living in a fascist nightmare, and a false plandemic, and do a little research. Too bad you don’t follow links posted. The medical info and data on morbidity are too much to post here. The fascist technocrats give squat for your constitution.

  • rgaura

    The test only tests for genetic material. It doesn’t really reveal anything diagnostic. The numbers have been pumped up by classification of any death who tests positive as death by corona virus, even if they died from a heart attack or old age. The test is said to create false positives 50% to 80% of the time. What does that tell you. Deaths for this time last year were about the same for europe and US. They are just classifying them as cover to push hysteria and a very dark agenda.

  • rgaura

    Yes, and they usually blow through and herd immunity is acquired in 4 to 6 weeks. Social isolation only prevents herd immunity, especially school closures, so that we will have recurring waves of covid19 and therefore `need´ mandatory vaccinations. As a by product, well, the social controls and destruction of personal wealth and small business make for an abject, dependent consumer class, who used to be citizens.

  • rgaura

    Cheers! Lets get creative!

  • Nylene13

    Have you seen Lee Camps talk today on Bernie Endorsing Biden?
    It should have been posted here on PR.

    Amen Lee. Amen.

  • Nylene13

    Watch Lee Camp’s video today about Bernie supporting Trump.

    It should have been here on PR.

    Amen Lee. Amen!

  • chetdude

    Thanks, I’ll check it out…

  • chetdude

    Gee, there’s no herd immunity from colds and flu — and Covid-19 is about 10 times as deadly…

    How about you volunteer — I’m not going to…

  • Nylene13

    So good.

  • chetdude

    What a beautiful rant, thank you!

  • Nylene13

    Isn’t it? Cheered me up Hugely.

    Why are they not showing this on PR?

  • “us”?

    Maybe it would buy you some time, but not the rest of us–not working people and the poor. Not the planet Earth itself.

    So you’d vote for someone to the Right of Richard Nixon to get rid of Trump? Who wouldn’t you vote for?

  • rgaura

    you need a science education

  • sabelmouse

    do you believe your propaganda or just spread it?

  • sabelmouse

    it’s a psyop for totalitarianism, and the results of that , loss of hardwon rights, could be with us for years/decades/centuries.

  • jemcgloin

    I said I would vote for Nixon, not someone ‘to the Right of Nixon.’ To the Right of Nixon is Trump and his supporters.

    Replacing Trump with Biden (or Nixon) would by everyone trying to create true democracy, from those that are openly calling for violent, corporate tyranny, otherwise known as fascism.

    Fascism is BAD for working people and the poor, and the planet Earth itself.

  • jemcgloin

    People are dying, and enough people are dying that morgues are full, and funeral homes can’t collect all of the bodies from their homes. I know medical staff in the middle of this, and I listen to them, not obscure websites.

    People don’t die from ‘false pandemics.’ They die from viruses, and people like you and Trump that call a pandemic a hoax.

    The difference between a cold or a flu and this virus is that many people have limited immunity to colds and flus, but there was zero immunity when this jumped from animals to humans.

  • jemcgloin

    The Constitution begins with ‘We the People…do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.’ It does not say ‘I the president ratify the Constitution,’ or ‘I Trump ratify the Constitution,’ yet.

    The Constitution places Sovereignty with the People instead of one man or family as it was though history. Tyranny is a hard habit to break, even for those subjected to it. If you are really for citizens taking back democracy, why would you attack our historical arguments, without replacing them with better arguments?

    You can argue that these words have been corrupted, and you can use Congress giving away its powers to the presidency since Nixon as an example, and I would agree.

    However, when citizens refuse to protect their Soeriegn Authority over the Constitution and the government, and give it away to [presidents in general and Trump in particular as so many do, THAT is exactly how they get away with taking away Our power and making it their own.

    You claim to be a Bernie supporter, and that of course doesn’t mean that you have to agree with him, but yesterday Bernie agreed with me to call Trump, ‘the most dangerous president in the modern history of this country.’ These are words that he regularly uses to describe Trump.

    Bernie endorsed Biden and calls Trump the most dangerous president in modern history (agreeing with me that he is more dangerous than Nixon or Clinton) for a reason.

    Bernie would work within the Constitution to implement and protect it. That is what he says, and that is what I want any president to do.

  • jemcgloin

    One more time, you cannot discuss the Founders and the original Constitution without discussing the history of the amendments to the Constitution, and what they mean (unless you are trying to hide history.)

    We the people took the words seriously and we took out the worst features, and we are still working on other bad features.

    The enemy of the good is not the perfect. It is the bad. But helping the bad in the name of the good is bad, whether centrist Democrats or socialists do it.

  • rgaura

    I´m not saying there is no flu. There is a flu epidemic, or pandemic every year. I’m saying that the person who developed the test specified that it is not a diagnostic. It only identifies a bit of genetic material, and since we have all had corona viruses, or the common cold, the results are 50% to 80% false positives. Also, there is not one cause. The flu always kills those with compromised immune systems. At least a few factors seem to be contributing; super bad air pollution and respiratory distress, poor food supply (GMO and glyphosate) and 5G. Wuhan, Lombardy and New York all share those multiple stressors. When you actually look at how they have been classifying deaths, there is a serious overcount. People who died of chemotherapy, heart attacks, or pneumonia are all counted, despite dying of other things.
    This is an opportunity to study virology and how viruses work in human systems and societies. Viruses are just little bits of RNA or DNA that are extruded from distressed cells, covered with a lipid layer (fat). They are not alive. They cannot duplicate or locomotive. 45% of your body is viral material. We have evolved with them, they may be one way evolution moves a bit faster, by passing around these strips of information. They have been shown to have a protective function. 80% to 90% of people have few or no symptoms, because they are healthy. Those with compromised immune systems are in danger and should be protected.
    You are misunderstanding the basic biology and jumping to media fueled conclusions. By staying at home, especially keeping children from school, we are preventing the development of herd immunity, and ensuring that the epidemic will be longer and come in waves, causing more death and disruption. So then, Mr Gates can say we all need to be vaccinated forcibly, which is part of what this unusual response is about.

  • jemcgloin

    Yes, ‘ millions of pages of laws and regulations that implement the profoundly undemocratic framework of, by and for the Plutocrat Owner/Donor Class.’ That is the Deep State that undermines Our Constitution from the top down.
    However, that doesn’t erase the fact that the Constitution starts with:

    ‘We the People…do establish this Constitution of the United States of America,’ or that We the People took this seriously and ended slavery, and gave most people the vote.

    Comprehend THAT.

    You claim to be for democracy, but argue against the People’s power, and for the power of a fascist president.

    If you help the Right end the Constitution, there is no freedom speech, freedom of religion, protection from police power, need for warrants, etc. There is only the people with guns and the people without.

    There is no argument against mass surveillance or mass incarceration, or even mass government murder, without the Constitution.

  • jemcgloin

    I never said you claimed that he coined the term. I was just pointing out that Smith was not a capitalist, because there was not such thing at the time.

    I read the entire Wealth of Nations. It talks about many subjects and is grounded in large amounts of data. To just lump him in with modern capitalists helps the capitalists.

    Smith called profits ‘Rents’ and was against getting paid for owning machinery, for example.

    Smith has been co-opted by modern capitalists to justify many things he was against, and too many socialists help them.

  • jemcgloin

    Why are you using pro-Trump propaganda, like ‘TDS?’

    I am not partisan at all. I’m a bit of a loner, and do individual sports rather than team sports. If I was a team player, I’d be on the anarchist team, but the only team I’m on is citizens of the USA trying not to go back before the revolution. (Unfortunately, even though I feel in my heart that anarchism is the ultimate democratic end, I see no evidence that humans are ready to actually make it work.) I criticize Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Left, Right, Center, and moderates when I think they are wrong.

    MSDNC is clever and accurate, but I avoid MSNBC as much as possible (as a channel surfer) because they do not have contact information, which means I can’t complain to them about their coverage. When I do watch, I scream at them for refusing to accuse Trump of actual High Crimes, just like Fox, CNN, the NY Times, or Popular Resistance for that matter. Even ‘ultra-partisan dems’ rarely accuse Trump of High Crimes, and impeached him on the smallest and hardest to prove offense they could find. Trump asked China to give him ‘information’ on the Bidens ON TELEVISION. Why didn’t they impeach on that?

    You still have not addressed my list of ways that Trump governs as if he is king, starting with him ignoring the Constitution and the law to govern to by PRIVATE WHIM. Show me another president that has done half of the things that I list. As Bernie keeps saying, Trump is ‘the most dangerous president in modern American history.’

  • jemcgloin

    Yes, centrist Democrats are selling us out. What are We going to do about it?

  • jemcgloin

    As we have agreed with each other before, the People have to exercise their power, or lose it.

  • chetdude

    On that we agree.

    Although lately I’ve been thinking more along the lines of the Zapatista Movement – withdraw our consent to be governed and learn to govern ourselves in our relocalized Communities…

  • chetdude

    According to the DNC and corporate media we HAVE TO vote “for” a senile, inarticulate, long-time neoliberal war monger and alleged rapist in order to “get rid of Trump” and then everything will be golden.

    Unicorns and fairies will cavort on the front lawn of the White House again. 😉

  • chetdude

    I never listen to Trump or republican sources of “information” – I got TDS from fellow left Progressives.

    AFAIK, it was those of us on the far left who coined the term TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) and applied it to explain the mindless rhetoric and invective from so many ultra-partisan dems against Progressives who suggested that “Russiagate” was counter-productive (as we see, it was) and when we opposed the delusional notion that “Bernie-Bros” elected Trump in 2016…

    I see no evidence that Trump’s war machine and national security state is any more dangerous to USAmerican citizens than Obama’s or that Trump’s drill it and burn it “energy” policy is substantially more dangerous than Obama, gwBush, Clinton, ghwBush or Reagan’s. After all, didn’t Obama just boast about burning more fossil fuels that any pResident before him?

    Thankfully, one of the positive effects of Covid-19 is substantially less fossil-fuels being burned — may that trend continue after this first wave of Covid-19 has passed.

  • chetdude

    The Civil War was mainly between industrial capitalism centered in the North and Agrarian, Slave-centered capitalism in the South over who would rule the nation.

    The industrial, infinite growth version won.

    Although the Jim Crow version of slavery continued in the still mostly agrarian South — to this day…

    A bunch of words on a piece of paper are merely suggestions, your ONLY real freedoms are those granted via consensus by your neighbors and your Community.

  • chetdude

    C’mon, friend, my profile is open. Give me an example where I ever “helped the bad in the name of the good!”

  • chetdude

    And again, “We the People” were completely understood as “We the elite, white, male property owners”.

    Then over the years others were admitted to the elite class including rich white women and rich women of color – like Oprah.

    But it’s still an Oligarchy of, by and for the Owner/Donor Class…

    And c’mon, what else would you expect a politician to say?

    In every way but back-sliding on some minor controls on what was still a geometric growth of GHG (Obama boasted about being the fossil-fuel pResident after all, “I did that!”), so far Trump has been much less “dangerous” as Nixon, Reagan or Clinton proved to be…

  • chetdude

    Flu shots often DO NOT WORK.

    (Mostly because they are products of private capitalist corporations and because the dozens of different strains of flu often mutate).

    If they did work, we wouldn’t have tens of thousands of people die from flu every year…INCLUDING many who got that particular year’s cocktail of flu vaccines…

  • chetdude

    I understand your post — tell that joke to the 114,000 + who have died from complications caused or exacerbated by Covid-19 so far.

  • chetdude

    Apparently you need that education.

    Pay particular attention to the keywords: viruses and mutation.

    Then you can explore the dozens of different and ever-evolving strains of flu and the hit or miss record of privatized corporations who try to guess which strains will be most prevalent every year and create each year’s cocktail of flu vaccines…

    Then you further your education by exploring the features of Covid-19 that make it so special…

  • chetdude

    Gee, that’s not what happened in 1918…

  • chetdude

    Do I believe the information from the Scientific Community who has no reason to lie?

    Well, yes I do.

    Do I believe idiots who post obvious nonsense and tin-foil hat theories on the internet – usually not.

    And certainly not without some shred of evidence.

  • chetdude

    “The test is said to create false positives 50% to 80% of the time”

    Said by whom? Fox “News” until a few weeks ago?

    Good Grief…

  • chetdude

    Ah, yes…

    “recorded deaths” in America(sic):

    Point Zero Zero Two percent of the population (.002%).

    Whereas the percentage for those who contract Covid-19 is around 22% dead, dead, dead.

  • 0040

    A lie told often does not make it true, death by Coronavirus is less than .01 %

  • chetdude

    11 days later — Alas, it looks like the guy who gave “advice” to Bernie was Obama and NOT George Lakoff…

    I can imagine the advice, “Nice little career you had there in Congress, it would be a shame to ruin the last few years of it.”

  • chetdude

    Queens Elizabeth in England and Mathilde in Belgium and even the Emperor of Japan have far less power than Obama and Trump have exercised against We the People and our only Home Planet…

    I object to slandering the remaining toothless monarchs in such a cavalier manner. (/s)

  • chetdude

    You’re the one who posted bogus numbers.

    Confirmed Cases (4/16/20): 2, 176,166 and climbing
    Closed Cases:

    Deaths: 145,304 — 21%

    Recovered: 546,437 — 79%

    “mild flu” – really?

  • sabelmouse

    NO reason to lie?!
    and why not listen to those scientists/doctors/experts who speak out against?
    the evidence is ALL anti pandemic/pro installing totalitarianism.

  • sabelmouse

    you’re comment is a good example for the unconsciously religious scientism believer i am talking about elsewhere.

  • sabelmouse

    COVID-19…The Rules:

    1. Basically, you can’t leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.

    2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.

    3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.

    4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.

    5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.

    6. Gloves won’t help, but they can still help.

    7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it’s important to GO OUT.

    8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.

    9. The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.

    10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…

    11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, my God.

    12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it’s better not to go out, well, but no…

    13. It’s better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don’t go to parks or walk. But don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).

    14. You can’t go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.

    15. If you are sick, you can’t go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.

    16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn’t wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?

    17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with ” I don’t want to trigger panic, but…”

    18. You can’t see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.

    19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don’t live under the same roof.

    20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.

    21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn’t say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.

    22. The virus stays in the air – well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.

    23. We count the number of deaths but we don’t know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were “almost dead” to find out if that’s what they will die of…

    24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications). Orange man bad.

    25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that?

  • sabelmouse


  • jemcgloin

    Not an answer. By the way, I compared future Trump to Saudi Kings, not toothless monarchs limited by parliaments empowered by Constitutions and other agreements.

    Show me another president that attacks so many principles of the Constitution, IN PUBLIC, multiple times in every week since inauguration.

  • jemcgloin

    I list specifics. You engage in generalizations. You have no logical argument; just wise cracks (that thoroughly entertain ShemlockHemlock.)

    For example, I don’t remember hearing any other president ever saying, ‘somebody should beat that guy up,’ and point to a critic, who then gets beat up. Only Trump stands on stage in front of cameras and calls for political violence. I don’t remember JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, or Obama ever doing that. Find me evidence that they did.

    Trump does a whole routine, where he imitates a ‘body slam’ by a Montana politician who beat up a reporter that asked him a question he didn’t like. That politician pleaded guilty on assault charges and apologized. Trump says that this ‘body slam’ probably got that Reporter re-elected.
    This is a violation of The First Amendment that protects the Press from government violence, and a call for state terror from politicians to use in elections, and a claim that the use of violence makes you more equal than the peaceful, because your views can be heard, but views from the less equal can be squashed, all in one skit.

    I’m pretty sure, that for any abuse of power against We the People (i.e. High Crime)from another president, that you can give evidence, I can give you evidence of Trump doing a similar thing but worse, more often, in public.
    That’s a challenge to you. Engage in the argument with evidence and analysis.

  • jemcgloin

    Claiming Trump is not a wannabe king against all BLATANT evidence (Trump governs like a king AND says repeatedly that he wants to be in office for ’20 years,’ because ‘president for life is just like king”) is helping the bad. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are doing it to help the good in some way.

    But my bigger argument is this. The Left has abandoned the arena of political power to jeer pathetically from the sidelines as corrupt establishment centrists give away as much as they can to the Right. Yes, protest creates momentum for change, but if you do not have people (like Bernie) on the inside, that momentum hits a brick wall.
    I spend most of my comment time on loyal Democrats who have been convinced that protest is a waste of time, because they don’t understand that without momentum for change, all of their insiders are just incrementally improving corruption. They don’t understand that you need both protesters engaging with the pubic to change the conversation to change the political balance AND politicians that are willing and able to take that momentum and turn it into actual laws and amendments. But either do most on the Left. Protest that does’t actually try to change anything is just playing at revolution.
    Democratic Centrist hack politicians surrender on behalf of ‘moderates’ and the Left, so the Left surrenders on behalf of We the People to Democratic Centrist hacks, leaving them to corrupt the government and the Constitution
    The police were DESIGNED to fight with protesters to neutralize their power and wear them out them out with violence. I watched dozens of Occupy protesters wear themselves thin ten dropping out, by engaging in mock revolution instead of actually trying to change anything. any in occupy where actually trying to change the system for the better, but others literally say they can’t change anything. They are just waiting for the system to fall apart, as if that would automatically create democracy. Power vacuums don’t create democracy. Ask Iraq. The majority of the more than 500,000 dead Iraqis were killed by power seeking Iraqis, not U.S troops. We only had enough troops to create a vacuum, not ‘democracy,’ much less democracy.
    Failed states are not socialist/anarchist democratic paradises of peace, equality, and abundance. They are war grounds between competing war lords. They are brutal, and concentrate power and resources from the top down.

    The Constitution is the only peaceful arena we have to argue for more political equality that results in more democratically distributed resources.
    Without the Constitution (flawed as it is, though it is being slowly improved and slowly corrupted), then the only arena is political terror from the state and paramilitary forces that would kidnap, torture and murder 100 or 1,000 times as many people as state terror already kills.
    Right now, state violence has to be justified (with evidence or at least semi-plausible lies) so that the state can keep its political legitimacy in the eyes of the public. Without the perceived need by those who control ‘the military, the police and bikers for Trump’ for a veneer of political legitimacy, a need for legitimacy created by activists and philosophers being attacked by the state over a thousand years, then there is no limit to state violence, either by the military and police with the help of sham courts (like in Turkey right now) or by paramilitary forces (‘bikers for Trump;’) operating with top down political impunity.

    All of you leftists that think you can just let the Right destroy the Constitution and that their next step will not be to turn their 300 million guns against you to finally create the ‘white,’ ‘christian,’ ‘capitalist,’ nation they crave (even though none of those words are in the Constitution) by subjugating the rest of us in a new ‘civil war,’ need to actually listen to what the Right says in the open all the time. They want to kill all the liberals and all the socialists and all the anarchists, because we are a threat to their way of life, and they want to control our productivity.

    If the Left doesn’t grow up and take the world where it is NOW, and move it forward a little bit before November, Trump will win and he will recognize no peaceful limits on his power. Then we will find out if the military, FBI, and police are more loyal to Trump or We the People. That is an answer I am afraid to get.

  • jemcgloin

    “your ONLY real freedoms are those granted via consensus, tolerance, compassion and reciprocity by your neighbors and your Community.” Yes, and when those freedoms are granted, we write them down on a piece of paper, then the Right starts to corrupt the words on the paper, and then we have to start again, over and over until the end of the human race.
    in case you haven’t noticed, writing is an important part of communicating to create the consensus.

  • jemcgloin

    If you assume that ‘Russia gate,’ was a Democratic Hoax, as the Right does, then you are correct it was counter productive. I don’t make that assumption.
    What I saw was Trump asking Russia and other countries (including China) to interfere in our elections ON TELEVISION. I saw Trump take the side of Russian Intelligence over US intelligence on stage, on foreign soil, next to Putin, on TV.

    It is not that job of POTUS to take the side of our adversaries, or even our allies against the U.S. government. If actual evidence existed that U.S. Intelligence was less loyal to the USA than Russian intelligence the president has the authority to release that evidence. Why doesn’t he? (Carter Page was under investigation as a possible Russian asset since he worked and lived in Russia, long before the Trump campaign, so the whole Steele/FISA thing is a scam. The FISA court has only turned down 12 out of over 30,000 applications, so the FBI has no reason to not be sloppy when putting in FISA application. The Right never complained when declassified documents showed the FBI spying on Occupy or other Left movements. But suddenly, Trump is asking for foreign interference in our elections, so the FBI is engaged in a coup because their FISA application was sloppy? And the Left buys that nonsense?)

    Even if you assume that U.S. intelligence is working against the interests of We the People (which, even after decades of carefully watching the intelligence community and seeing mostly top down corruption like Iran/Contra and lies about Iraqi WMD, I do not), then the way to deal with that corruption is INTERNALLY. Russian intelligence is not going to take the side of We the People against U.S. intelligence. They are going to take the side of Putin and Russia against We the People and control U.S. Intelligence to control us.

    The fact that the Right is attacking our intelligence agencies without evidence, while they are fine with Russia hacking our elections means that they are traitors to the People and that they are willing to sell out the defense of the USA for their private political power. Trump is doing this ON TELEVISION.

    It may well be that CIA and FBI are corrupt, but no foreign country can help us with that. Trump removing career Inspector Generals (under cover of a virus he let spin out control) with loyalist puppies is not going to take corruption out of Intelligence services.
    Only We the People can remove corruption from Our government, one prosecution at a time. Political purges of intelligence services by a cabinet full of corrupt billionaires who oppose the missions of their agencies, and who are allied with Mitch McConnell and others that attack our elections at the federal and state levels can only make intelligence agencies more corrupt.

    If ‘Russia gate” was a hoax, it was Trump’s hoax. It was Trump that hired dozens of people that had secret conversations with Russians and lied about it to the FBI. t was Trump that kept bringing the conversation back to ‘no collusion, no collusion,’ over and over, even killing his own infrastructure weekS, and everything else positive he might have done by bringing up Russia even when when the media was trying to avoid the subject.

    We have a president that keeps taking the side of adversaries. That is not the president’s job. It has nothing to do with Democrats, except that they refuse to actually explain that these are High Crimes.

    Republican Mueller, appointed by the Trump Administration, accused Trump of multiple acts of obstruction of justice (a federal crime that I saw him commit on TV every time he attacked Sessions, Mueller, and Rosentein for being ‘disloyal’ to him), and referred these crimes to Congress for impeachment when he said, ‘the Constitution has a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president.’ There is only one process in the Constitution to formally accuse a sitting president.
    If Trump was not accepting the help from Russia that he asked for on stage at the debates, why not let the investigation prove his innocence, instead of obstructing it on TV?

    Now I can understand why a corrupt corporate media and corrupt Republican and Democratic Parties would pretend that Trump’s own investigator did not refer Trump’s obstruction to Congress for impeachment. (They want the Constitution weakened because that is what their big money donors and owners want.)
    I don’t understand why the Left does it too.

    I don’t understand why the Left is allied with the Right to protect Trump while he attacks the Constitution on TV. It is suicidal. Literally.

  • jemcgloin

    Another of my questions left unanswered. I didn’t ask you what the DNC was going to do about it. I asked what you think We the People should do about it.

    (By the way, if you let people be ruined because of alleged crimes, than the 1% will just allege crimes against their adversaries all day long, as Trump does.

  • jemcgloin

    Zapatistas used to come to Occupy to share their stories with us.

    They were able to survive because they developed close relationships with journalists across the media (even though it is mostly owned by billionaire Carlos Slim), before they started getting attacked by ranchers and the government. This gave them a political shield that protected them from mass murder as they got favorable coverage from journalists who they schmoozed.

    Supposedly, the Kurds are developing overlapping census circles in an expanded anarchist form of governing. This would mean that the CIA is helping anarchists replace hierarchy in the Middle East, which sounds dubious.

  • jemcgloin

    I have studied DNA carefully and have a decent understanding of the evolutionary impact of viruses on DNA.

    You are mistaking viruses that have been co-evolving with humans in a yearly struggle for thousands of years (we evolve new defenses, and they evolve new attacks, repeat) with a virus that has recently jumped to humans from animals, against which our immune systems have to start from scratch, not start from last year’s model and make some modifications. It is more difficult to neutralize a virus the body hasn’t seen, than to find and attack the small variation in an ancient attacker. This is why morgues don’t fill to overflowing from the cold, or most flues.

    In Westworld (I’m too lazy to find the original source of this idea at the moment) one of the characters points out that evolution created the human mind from millions of years of mistakes (and many of those mistakes were caused by viruses). But still, that doesn’t mean we should welcome attacks on our DNA by viruses, because almost all of the mistakes are dead-ends. Only a few make us ‘fitter.’

    A virus hijacks our cell’s machinery to reproduce. You may enjoy being a copy machine for lifeless particles that we have few defense against, but I’ll keep my distance, thanks.

  • jemcgloin

    Just watched it. He’s always funny, but the only thing I really agreed with is that Biden is Mr. Magoo.
    At the end, Camp and the host basically agreed that there is no way to fix the system, because everyone that enters it is either coopted or destroyed. That is exactly the surrender by the Left that I keep attacking. This kind of thinking says, just let the lying, divisive, greedy, violent Right win, because that will create democracy. It’s suicide in the name of idealism.

    I’ll take Mr. Magoo over the Joker, sorry.

    By the way, RT stands for Russian Television. (Anyone that believes Russia doesn’t control RT also might as well believe that Blackwater became a force for good in the world when they changed their name to Xe Services.) Left activists should not be openly allying with Russia by going on their media outlets. It discredits everything they say.
    Russia has its own agenda. It is not the agenda of the American People. Russia is promoting fascist propaganda on the Right at the same time they have Lee Camp on the Left. The Left needs to find ways to reach the People that doesn’t rely on a foreign governments.

  • jemcgloin

    None of the arguments that I make are Democratic arguments. They refuse to make these obvious arguments. Instead of impeaching Trump on his mountain of High Crimes committed on TV, the partisans impeached on one secret phone call, which I explained would fail.
    When I went to my partisan Democratic Congressmen’s office, and asked why their partisan attacks on Trump always ignored his High Crimes, to talk about his constitutional lies and insults, and asked why are you impeaching on the hardest to prove case, they threw me out of the office.

    I don’t internalize partisan memes. I find public evidence and I analyze it, independently. My independence of thought is why I argue against leftists AND centrists (and don’t even bother arguing with the Right, because they are only interested in clever arguments for violent politics, not actual evidence and logic).

    Just like i rip apart corrupted memes like ‘capitalism vs socialism,’ on here, I do it on establishment platforms more often.

    TDS IS a partisan meme. I reject it.

  • Nylene13

    RT? Do you mean PR?

    PR stands for Popular Resistance.

    There is nothing wrong with Freedom of Speech. People should go to whatever political site they want to.

    I do not think the U.S. Government has the agenda of the American People at heart.

    Well, the RICH Americans agenda!

    What do you “Rightists” have against Russia anyway? They fought on our side against Hitler.

    Nothing wrong with foreign governments. Or do you think the U.S. should Rule the World?

    The Truth is-
    You Righties just hate anything that isn’t Rich Owned Capitalism. And the irony is most of you are not even Rich!

    But for you-Personal Wealth is the American Dream….

  • rgaura

    herd immunity is natures wisdom on this one. this is a disinformation campaign for global universal vaccination. there are too many mutating viruses to even think that would be a solution.

  • Starfire

    Good post, sabelmouse.

  • chetdude

    Sorry — you’re correct about the impeachment. But alas, they didn’t dare impeach Trump for crimes that democrats and republicans in the White House and Congress have also committed.

    Please forgive me — these are heated times and I find much more to agree with you about than not.

    I guess one could say that since TDS is applied by those of us on the radical left to folks blinded by their unreasoning hatred fomented by the talking heads at Comcast/MSDNC (for ad revenue) – alas, including my rather good hearted, compassionate, intelligent, progressive daughter who gets to a certain point and begins spouting MSDNC memes instead of engaging on the actual subject we’re discussing…

    As well as by some in the Trump camp where that particular truth is unleashed to deflect from what he does.

    Twice a day the stopped (12 hour) clock is correct. 😉

  • chetdude

    I’ve offered my solution.

    At the Federal level it would be a massive, militant but non-violent mass of the People’s Lobby filling the Halls of Congress whenever Congresscritters are there (and their offices and public appearances when they aren’t) directly opposing and confronting the 18,000 paid lobbyists with their lies and campaign bribes in order to convince, cajole or, if necessary, threaten the jobs of 269 Congresscritters (51 in the Senate and 218 in the House) in order to get essential, existentially necessary legislation passed for a willing President like Sanders would have been to sign.

    I don’t see pandering to the Kabuki of the Duopoly as a pathway to Change.

  • chetdude

    “What I saw was Trump asking Russia and other countries (including China) to interfere in our elections ON TELEVISION.” I saw that in REAL TIME. It was obviously a joke aimed at Clinton during a “debate” — and it scored a direct hit.

    Since the US Government IS a government of, by and for the top point 1 of 1% the only way he could be a traitor is if he became a Class traitor as FDR sort of did.

    If “Russiagate” were an episode of Law and Order, the perp would have gotten off on that show as well. As even Mueller admitted in his report, the “evidence” was flimsy at best – not even enough for a rubber-stamp grand jury to indict. I’m afraid you’ve gone off the rails into the TDS weeds on this subject, my friend.

    If you’re referring to me and my cohorts in the “Left” – we are allied with working class folk of all kinds to protect us all from the economic crimes, Forever War and planet threatening capitalist machine — Trump is a tool and so is Biden – so no, we would NEVER “protect” Trump.

    We will call out obvious bullsh*t though — sorry…

  • chetdude

    Amazing example of deflection there, my friend… 😉

  • chetdude

    Just because Gates is a f*cking clueless idiot doesn’t mean that Covid-19 can’t kill people like me — over 75 post two heart attacks and left bye the sick care system with 50% heart function.

    I hope you don’t mind if I prefer not to volunteer to see if you’re correct…

  • chetdude

    I’ll bet President Jackson said those kinds of things and worse while saturating the White House rugs with tobacco juice.

  • chetdude

    Well, there’s Obama…

  • chetdude

    I for one am happy that the fossil-fueled capitalist consumption, exploitation and pollution machine has been slowed down…

  • chetdude

    You’re going to run out of tin-foil soon at this rate…

  • chetdude

    Death toll – 21% of those who get it…

  • sabelmouse

    i avoid aluminium.

  • sabelmouse

    next: eugenics, how many slaves do the rich need?
    and the planet has been turned into a pristine luxury resort for them
    as long as they ignore all the devastated places of their own creation.
    nature will reclaim those of course.
    happy enslavement should you survive.
    then again, you’ll most likely take the cool aid/vaccine.

  • sabelmouse

    he isn’t clueless at all, why would you think that?

  • sabelmouse

    not mine, should have sad of course. from fb, La Sarca.

  • 0040

    Or those indulging their need to panic .

  • chetdude

    The benefit of watching his actions over decades and often suffering as a result…

    The only “solutions” he can comprehend are those that increase shareholder equity of monopoly capitalists…

  • jemcgloin

    ‘Obama…’ Is not an answer. I can list more abuses of the Constitution by Obama than ‘…’

  • jemcgloin

    Details, please or give it up.

  • jemcgloin

    There is no comedy defense to High Crimes in the Constitution.

    Again, I don’t understand why the ‘Left’ is engaging in the same talking points as Republicans, corporate media, and corporate Democrats.

    Go back and watch Mueller’s press conference. Mueller did his job, but ‘the Press,’ and the ‘opposition party’ refused to do theirs. Then Democrats impeached on the weakest possible case they could make. It was the job of the Press and Democrats to take that sentence, ‘the Constitution has a process other than the criminal Justice system to formally accuse a sitting president,’ and explain why it was an impeachment referral and make Mueller’s careful presentations,’ exciting, but they called it boring.

    Corporate Democrats didn’t impeach on real High Crimes because they want to do it too, but why does the ‘Left’ keep talking Trump’s side? That’s what I’d really like to know.

  • jemcgloin

    “Ill bet…” IS NOT EVIDENCE AND IS NOT AN ARGUMENT. I give you lists of Trump quotes proving he is committing abuses of power on TV while the entire nation ignores it, and you come back with “I’ll bet President Johnson said,…”

    Obama didn’t commit treason ON TELEVISION, on foreign soil, on stage, next to the man who has CLAIMS to be attacking Our elections. I said treason and the rest of the world said, ‘hmmm, that was uncomfortable.’
    Corporate media, Republicans, Corporate Democrats, and the professional Left appearing on Russian Television (yes it is still Russian Television), all agree that Trump is rude and bad at comedy while Trump mocks, contradicts,threatens to violate and actually violates the Constitution on TV.
    Trump is letting a virus spin out of control, because he is convinced corporate media will help him spin his way out of it, including the activist Left.
    And its working, because almost no one knows or says or cares that Trump is turning the Inspector General Offices

    I have never been so scared in my life.

    If any of you are siding with Russian Intelligence because you think the result will be democracy, you might want to think about that a little longer.

    The funny thing is I don’t claim any conspiracy, just a numbing silence from everyone that claims to care about democracy as democracy is mocked on TV.

    Again, there is no Comedy defense for a president that commits High Crimes, only the no evidence and no witnesses defense, which not even Clinton or Nixon invoked.

    The sky IS falling. The wolves ARE at the door. And I waited decades for evidence about ‘conspiracy theories’ to write papers with primary evidence about the Drug War, Iran Contra, Iraq, the NSA, etc. and I never believe anything until the PRIMARY evidence is overwhelming.
    (Long before Snowden popped, I wrote a paper that showed that the Patriot Act was just a diversion with primary sources explaining that, After my presentation my professor took the time to tell the class that although my claims (that the NSA was copying everything) sounded outlandish, the sources were excellent. Then a girl from class found me outside and told that after she dated a guy from Ireland, an NSA contractor friend of hers gave her a cassette (which in 2010ish made the story more believable) of all her conversations with Irish guy.
    I don’t let accusations in until they are proved. Iran Contra was proved in court, then (now AG) Bill Barr got most of them pardoned. And I watched live as Ollie North cried about America in his dress blues and turned from criminal mastermind to national hero in a millisecond, which shows you that the masses can be manipulated by their emotions by the skilled.

    I’m not a true believer. But I can smell a wannabe dictator and his backers a mile a way.

    I have a new spectrum of political thought: The violent versus the peaceful. No one is perfect, but you have to chose a side.

    I will defend myself violently if attacked, but making fake excuses to attack is CHOOSING violence over dialogue.

    Dialogue creates cooperation and equality leading to creativity and win/win solutions.
    Violence creates division and inequality. (You are especially unequal when enslaved, and I am not blind to wage and debt slavery either). Purposeful deprivation is violence. Trump is against equality and for violence. Its not funny.

    Are you for peace or violence? Left is peace. Right is violence.

    Many people died to create the Constitution and to protect it over many hundreds of years. Most of those people wanted to argue and the ones that killed them didn’t care to talk, and forced them to fight and sometimes kill or die. The South created the Civil War when they forsook the Constitution to raise an army against their Own Union (to protect their ‘right’ to own slaves). Traitors arm, train, and call for ‘civil war,’ which means VIOLENCE against American citizens following the rules of war are not on my side. They support a president that says neonazis are fine people while they fly the Confederate flag and oppose and corrupt the Constitution FOR A REASON.

    The Constitution is not funny. You don’t have to agree to be part of it, but the President is not Authorized to make it the butt of his jokes. That is just one category of Trump’s abuses of Power DESIGNED to end all limits on Trump’s power.

  • chetdude

    He’s playing you — and the media — and his fans…

    Why is that so hard to understand?

  • chetdude

    Making a joke in a “debate” is not a “high Crime” last time I looked…

  • chetdude

    “It was settled by the Constitution, the laws, and the whole practice of the government that the entire executive power is vested in the President of the United States.” Sound familiar?

    “To the victors belong the spoils”

    Yes, the president the U.S. Treasury is planning on putting on the back of Harriett Tubman is the second most racist president of all-time. Ironically, he attracted the same demographic groups (less educated, less affluent White men) that Trump is attracting these days.


    “America must be kept American” Anti immigrant Calvin Coolidge.

    President Woodrow Wilson never turned his back on the racist ideas – President Wilson unapologetically backed what he called the “great Ku Klux Klan,” and championed the Klan’s violent disenfranchisement of southern African Americans in the late 19th century. Called “Birth of a Nation” a national treasure.

    “The blacks…are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind” Thomas Jefferson

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Stop hyperventilating. No one hows many people have the disease. The only ones that are counted are the sick ones that have gotten tested. There are likely WAY more than the “official count.” The death rate will ultimately end up more like that of a conventional flu or lower. We will only be able to determine the actual death rate when there is global testing for antibodies.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    You only receive “information” from those in the scientific community the media wants you to hear. There are many esteemed doctors and scientists who question the hysteria and hyperbole around the virus, but you will never hear them on corporate media.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    I bet you couldn’t wait to bomb Saddam, too, because of… WMD! The government and the media told you so.

  • sabelmouse


  • Nylene13

    You have to consider who Jefferson was talking to.

    I believe Jefferson wrote this as an argument as to why Slavery should be ended. White Slave-owners argued that to give slaves freedom would allow them to take over the country and kill all the white slave owners.

    Jefferson was saying, have no fear -freed slaves would not be capable of organizing to do such a thing. He was trying to use the slave owners own arguments against them.

    Jefferson’s goal was to END slavery.

    When he finally gave up holding up the ratification of the U.S. Constitution -in a fight to end slavery…he said-

    “This (Slavery) is no way to start a New Country. 200 years from now we will still regret this decision made today”

  • jemcgloin

    When a president makes a ‘joke’ at the EXPENSE of the Constitution, it can only be a High Crime, as far as I’m concerned. The President swears to protect the Constitution and mocking something is not protecting it.
    Where did you look by the way? The Constitution doesn’t list all of the possible abuses of power.

  • jemcgloin

    Take Trump literally and seriously or you are being played as he normalizes worse and worse behavior with the help of corporate media, Republicans, Democrats, and the activist Left.

  • chetdude

    “the activist Left” BULLSH*T…

  • chetdude

    There’s nothing “Unconstitutional” about joking about Hillary’s missing emails in a debate…And he was merely a candidate, NOT IN POWER…

    It wasn’t nearly as bad as gwbush’s disgusting joke about looking for WMD under his bed after killing thousands and rendering millions as refugees… Why didn’t the f*cking dems impeach his a**…?

    Look – the REALITY is that Donald J. Trump is SH*T and so is corporate-Joe Biden.

  • chetdude

    That’s the closest thing to an “intelligent” post you’ve made so far…

  • chetdude

    WTF? I suggest you check out my profile and see who the f*ck you’re talking to.

    Aw, hell, I’ll give you a hint — I resigned from the military in 1964 and was soon opposing the American War in Vietnam…

  • chetdude

    Are those the guys from Exxon-Mobile?

  • chetdude

    Covid in the US has already killed more USAMERICANS in the last 6 weeks than the flu does in 2 years…

  • CoCoLuv9491

    That is a lie, or else you are grossly misinformed. 80,000 Americans died during the flu season of 2017-2018. Less than 40,000 dead from coronavirus so far, but that number is inflated because there is currently no distinction made between those who have died with COVID (people with pre-existing conditions or compromised immunity) and those who have died from COVID (healthy individuals). The median age of people who have died from the virus is 78.

    Best to check out your facts before putting out false information that makes you look misinformed.

  • Ok. I’ll bite. Who are these totalitarians?

  • Not all viri, chet. Only some–at least insofar as viri in general mutate at very different rates–even within viral families, as with strains of influenza. Covid19 at least so far appears pretty stable, in comparison to influenza viri. Mutation is a measure of genetic changes within the structure of a given organism, more or less strictly speaking; theoretically at least, this new corona virus could actually mutate itself right out of pathogenicity, though I wouldn’t count on that happening. Which does not paint a rosey picture by any means, since we still have little to no effective treatment–nothing that can be considered definitively proven, at any rate–for severe infections.

    As for immunity being short-lived, again chet-not true for all viri. The viri which cause mumps, polio and the measles trigger an immune antibody response which effectively lasts a human lifetime. The viri which cause tetanus and diptheria trigger an immune antibody response which typically lasts about a decade. You would be correct in pointing out that the issue of immunity with corona viri is largely up in the air right now–but nonetheless there is some serious research data that suggests that corona viri can induce a 8-10-year span of immunity in response to infection/exposure–in the range of tetanus and diptheria–while the lowest numbers I’ve found have been approximately one to three years. There is however a small plethora of anecdotal accounts of people becoming “reinfected” somewhichway shortly after having “recovered” or being declared corona-free–though I haven’t been able to find any corroborating medical information for any of these. There is also some evidence that while greatly diminished in numbers the virus may persist for some time among a small number of people who have developed immunity to it, after they’ve ceased to be ill and present symptoms; such non-symptomatic recovered persons are generally not regarded as particularly infectious carriers, though it remains to be seen if the virus will still be around after an extended period of time.

    There are some sources online which I can cite with links, if you’re interested–mainstream media sites reporting on ongoing medical research and actual medical research data in reputable, peer-reviewed journals.

  • sabelmouse

    seriously? do you still think in terms of

  • sabelmouse

    the only person that you show up is yourself.

  • Obviously the number of people exposed to Covid19 is far higher than the official count. Given the lack of comprehensive, universal testing, that’s a number that can only be guessed at–indeed, even with far more comprehensive testing, it would be virtually impossible to determine an actual mortality rate without testing for antibodies as you say.

    And yes the percentage of fatalities would drop precipitously if there was universal testing and global antibody testing.

    However I don’t see how you get from all that to your prediction that that the death rate “will be more like that of a conventional flu or lower.” And even if that were to be the case, what does it matter? Tens of thousands of people dead from influenza or corona is still tens of thousands of people dead.

    Anyhow I hope I’m being more skeptical than obtuse.

  • My understanding is that “healthy individuals” do not die from Covid19 exposure/infection. So I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the distinction you’re making.

    Human immunity is a tricky thing–even an evidently healthy individual can be subject to temporary immune suppression by a large range of environmental mitigating agents–including physical stress, sleep deprivation, and even emotional stress. A brief over-exposure to certain pesticides and insecticides, for instance, while it might not make you particularly ill or even uncomfortable for very long, can kick your body’s immunity in the gut and leave you susceptible to serious infection–granting a virus like Covid19 a window of opportunity to flourish and cause enough damage to kill you.

  • . . . ?

    Yes I’m serious.

    I mean, how can you have totalitarianism without totalitarians? Ok I’m being glib. But who would want a global outbreak of a potentially extremely lethal disease? And why?

    The only examples I can think of come from works of fiction–Margaret Atwood’s Oryx and Crake trilogy, and the movie 12 Monkeys. In both of those narratives the instigator is a specific person, a religious or quasi-religious fanatic.

    Anyhow I would like a serious answer, especially since you think “it’s a psyop.” From what I can see it’s more complicated than that–more catastrophically stupid and less sinister in origin.

  • sabelmouse

    there’s no real pandemic. there’s a psyop to see how high we will jump, ot rather how far we can be pushed, or the actual start of global corporate fascism/total population control/eugenics.
    how man slaves do the 1%/their minions need?
    he rest of us useless eaters are just cluttering up the landscape.

  • tomonthebay

    And you are silly enough to actually believe that nonsense.

  • jemcgloin

    If Hillary’s emails were only Hillary’s emails, than there would be no case that she did anything wrong with her own emails.

    The whole criticism of Hillary’s abuse of the emails (criticism that I agree with) is that she was mishandling U.S. Government emails. Trump didn’t ask Russia to hack Hillary’s email, but official U.S. diplomatic communications. Trump invited the Russians to hack the U.S. government, not just Hillary or the DNC.

    You can’t have it both ways. Either Hillary mishandled her private emails which means that Trump is lying about her ‘crimes,’ or those emails belonged to We the People, which means that Trump asked Russia to hack us.

    Trump stood on TV and asked China for information on the Bidens. Allying with foreign government by asking them to interfere in domestic politics is exactly a High Crime discussed by the Founders when they were writing the impeachment Clause.

    When Trump contradicts the Constitution with phrases like “The Press is the enemy of the People,” or the ‘phony Emoluments Clause,” calling it ‘comedy’ doesn’t make it funny, it just shows that you have no respect for the Constitution.
    Now, I know you have none, but you are not in the government, and you did not swear an Oath to protect the Constitution, and you are not voting for this traitor.

    The idea that mocking, contradicting, threatening to violate, and actually violating the Constitution is consistent with Trump’s presidential oath is wishful thinking, not logic.

    Yes, Bush should have been impeached, especially for ordering torture based on the ‘unitary executive’theory that the president can do whatever he wants, which Bill Barr has been pushing for decades. Lying to start a war that got 4,491 Americans and 500,000 Iraqis killed was probably impeachable too. There aren’t many recent presidents that shouldn’t have been impeached, but that is not an excuse for Trump’s public treasons.

    Take Trump literally AND seriously.

  • jemcgloin

    Why do so many Left political activists agree with corporate media, Republicans, and loyal DNC Democrats that Trump’s public attacks on the Constitution are not impeachable?

    For me, that fact is the scariest thing about all of this.

    I may be the boy who cried wolf, but I see overwhelming evidence in public, and I disagree with all the corrupt politicians and media. Why do you agree with them, against the obvious evidence I keep recounting?

  • chetdude

    Blaa-blaa-blaa – he’s easily playing you…and you lap it up with a spoon…

    Be careful, taking that con-man seriously cripples the “thinking process”.

    Tell ya’ what, if ANY of your disaster scenario comes to pass please be sure to place the blame where it belongs — craven enablers who call themselves republican AND democrat Congresscritters…

  • chetdude

    As more time goes by and more information about this particular virus is revealed, I’m more and more convinced it was engineered…

    Not for intentional release but as part of the execrable, suicidal war machines.

  • jemcgloin

    I use to think the Right was ‘reasonable people with whom we happen to disagree,’ but I now have 50 years of evidence slapping me across the head screaming, No, they reject reason and prefer violence.

    No one on the right is honest and none of them are actually ‘anti-war, anti-capitalist, anti-neoliberalism, anti-reaganomics, anti-clintonomics, pro-M4A, anti-corporate, etc. etc. etc.’ They may be anti-clinton but are not against his policies which were all Republican policies. They have just moved on to new lies.

    They are lying. The second that Trump decides to invade Iran they would be with him 100% and criticizing the idea would be ‘unpatriotic’ just like Iraq. The Right lies to promote hate, greed, and violence, because they think they can win survival of the fittest economics.

    Democrats don’t say anything like this. They say Trump is stupid and corrupt, but won’t admit that the Right is against the Constitution even as they have a trial without evidence or witnesses. They refuse to list or explain his public High Crimes.

    Yes the Democrats let Republicans run to the Left of them (Trump ran on Bernie’s platform in 2016) but that doesn’t mean they are actually to the Left of Democrats. They are not.

  • I avoid using the word pandemic because I find it evokes more panic and irrationalism than reason and sobriety–however, there is no doubt in my mind that there has been an international outbreak of disease which has been devastating and sporadically catastrophic. In every case the catastrophe I think has been largely a result of the response from people in positions of power, and not the virus itself. Nonetheless you can reasonably call what’s happening a pandemic in a strictly objective sense–an outbreak of a potentially lethal disease which is internatioal and global in extent if far from evenly dispersed.

    The United States now leads the world in the number of deaths attributed to Covid19, but New York state accounts for nearly half of that number, and that pattern has held throughout the outbreaks. I think that that death toll can be laid squarely at the feet of the state’s sociopathic leadership–tracking specifically to the doorstep of the state’s Right-wing Conservocrat thug governor Andrew Cuomo, currently being worshipped as a hero by zealous and utterly deluded Democratic Party partisans.

    So what I want is an answer or answers to Who? As in “Who did this? Who let this happen? Who has failed to stop it when the power to stop it is right there within their reach?” New York state is the home of Wall Street.

  • Perhaps.

    But I have yet to come across a credible account to that effect. Playing around with pathogenic viri in the lab is still largely a crapshoot, from what I understand, and conceivably an extremely dangerous game to play–but it doesn’t take any human agency or intervention to produce something lethal. Nature itself is perfectly capable of producing such things.

  • sabelmouse

    if you believe propaganda.

  • chetdude

    We may never know…