The Two Parties Have Failed Us, But The People Can Succeed

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The Republican and Democratic Party conventions showed that both major parties are failing to control the pandemic and protect people, address the climate crisis and clean up the environment, support families and businesses during the economic collapse, prevent police violence or deal with any of the other major problems we face.

These were two substance-less conventions. The Democrats focused on criticizing Trump without putting forward an agenda while the Republicans claimed Biden was a front for socialism when he is a deeply embedded corporate Democrat. Trump’s term as president has been a disaster and Biden has been consistently on the wrong side of history over his 47 years in politics. On issues today, both are out of step with the views of the majority of voters.

The two parties demonstrated that people must lead from below because the parties represent the wealthy and transnational corporations. We must continue to organize and build popular power if we are to win the changes we need.

Join us for a webinar and rally on Sunday, August 30 at 2:00 pm Eastern to learn how people can build power to shape the future.

After the DNC-RNC We Can’t Breathe: Keep The Struggle In The Streets
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The Two Parties Have Failed The People

At the Democratic Convention, no one used the phrases Medicare for all, Green New Deal, tuition-free college and vocational school, universal basic income, or wealth tax, even though all of these issues are supported by the majority of voters. Sen. Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang were silenced on issues they had championed during their campaigns.

At the Republican Convention, if those policies were mentioned, they were derided or called ‘socialist.’ The two parties did not talk about economic, health, and environmental policies because neither has any solutions. Instead, the bi-partisan policies they support have created the economic, public health, and environmental crises we are facing.

The United States is in crisis because the two-party system has failed the people and the planet. On a global scale, the United States is rated as a “flawed democracy” and corruption is on the rise. Studies within the United States find that popular support for a policy has no impact on whether it will be made into law by Congress, while wealthy interests have a significant impact over whether a law passes or fails. This is consistent with the United States being a plutocracy ruled by the wealthy.

As we have written in the past, the United States is a mirage democracy where the candidates are largely chosen by the power holders and the people get to vote for one or another corporate-approved candidate. A few progressive candidates are elected from time to time but they are marginalized at the federal level. If they do gain power, the elites move swiftly to rein them in or redistrict them out.

Third party candidates are kept out of the debates and the media, even left-leaning media like Democracy Now has not interviewed the Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins although he’ll be on the ballot in most states. Third party candidates have to fight to be on the ballot in each state, a challenge often made more difficult by Democrats and Republicans challenging them and tying them up in court.

For this reason, many people throw up their hands and decide that trying to work within the two-party system is the only available option, as flawed as it is. But, where has that gotten us? Federal elections these days are more commonly about voting against what you don’t want rather than voting for what you do want. Lesser evil voting has driven a race to the bottom in the quality of the candidates because as long as people are voting out of fear, it doesn’t matter who the candidate is or what they stand for.

Trump and Biden as the major party presidential candidates this year are the result of the system we have. Whichever one wins in November, the outcome will still be a plutocracy. The climate crisis will still rage on with climate-transformed wildfires, derechos, and drought that destroy crops and strong hurricanes that flatten towns but the Green New Deal will be off the table. The COVID-19 pandemic will continue to sicken and kill hundreds of thousands but Medicare for All won’t be an option. Workers will still be forced to work for low wages in unsafe conditions, families will lose their homes and students will be buried under heavy loans, but when Wall Street corporations or banks need help, the Federal Reserve will whisk their troubles away to the tune of trillions of dollars. Wars and interventions will continue as the Pentagon receives record budgets year after year, but for some reason, there isn’t enough money to fund our public schools, feed hungry families, or rebuild our failing infrastructure.

This system is protected by a security state that has no regard for human life, especially if you are black or brown. Time and again, the legal system lets the police get away with cold-blooded murder. This lack of accountability emboldens law enforcement. And now, it is clear from the recent events in Kenosha Wisconsin, and even before that, those right-wing militias are an unofficial arm of the security state. If this continues and they are not held accountable, they will also be emboldened to kill with impunity.

This is the reality in which we live. It is not the first time in history that this situation has existed in the world but it is unique to our generations in this country. We are living in a dark period, a failing state, and changing this situation is going to take hard work and sacrifice, but history also teaches us that people do have the power to take on the power elites and win.

After the DNC-RNC We Can’t Breathe: Keep The Struggle In The Streets, Webinar and Rally, Sunday Aug. 30 at 2:00 pm Eastern. Click here to register Share on Facebook

People have the power; protest in Ferguson City Hall in 2014.

Building Power To Lead From Below

We are in the midst of a national uprising on multiple fronts of struggle. There are widespread protests against racist police violence and there have been more than 900 wildcat strikes since March over worker safety and low pay. Teachers are striking over school reopenings. There are ongoing protests stopping pipelines and extreme energy extraction projects as well as demanding action on the climate crisis. Just last week, there was a national day of protest involving actions in hundreds of cities to save the US Postal Service.

Since the Occupy protests of 2011, which focused on wealth inequality and political corruption, but also included system-wide change on low wages, police violence, the climate crisis, and student debt, people have been building deeper movements in all of these areas. During the Obama-era, the Fight for $15 began, along with Black Lives Matter, immigrant rights, climate, and debt protests. When the pandemic and recession began, people started organizing General Strike and Rent Strike campaigns

The potential for people power has never been greater. Hundreds of thousands of people are ready to take the streets and stop business as usual. This is a time when every one of us has a role to play, whether it is sharing information in our communities (being the media), starting conversations in our social circles (education), organizing and mobilizing people in the groups we belong to or providing support for our neighbors and people who are in the streets (mutual aid). Learn how social movements create transformational change in our free online course.

No matter what happens this November, the protest movement must continue to fight for economic, racial, and environmental justice as well as peace. The next presidential Inauguration Day will need to be a day of protest when more people come to Washington, DC to make demands of the next president than are there to celebrate him.

The growing movement of movements has a broad foundation of education, organization, and mobilization on which to build. We have the ability to make this country ungovernable and if we use that power, we can make demands that cannot be ignored.

After the DNC-RNC We Can’t Breathe: Keep The Struggle In The Streets Sunday Aug. 30 at 2:00 pm Eastern. Click here to register Share on Facebook

  • Richard

    IMO, we need to be protesting these crooks where they live, work, shop, dine, and anyplace else you happen to see them, make them fear going out in public for anything because citizens are everywhere they go wanting answers & making their wishes known and demanding an end to all their BS & lies. Clog up their city where they live and socialize, even let all these radical outside individuals and groups that have been mixing in with the protesters join in and put their hate & anger to good use against a common foe for a change. Government is by far the greatest threat to us all as citizens and until that changes nothing will ever change, it will only get worse. We need better tactics, and soon before people lose interest again.

  • Alan MacDonald

    I am at whits end as to why the young protesters every where don’t
    understand that the ONLY way they will be able to win ‘strategically’ is
    to simply and totally ‘peacefully’ just confront this [blank] EMPIRE —
    by literally “calling it out” as an EMPIRE.

    How [blank] stupid is it to confront EMPIRE with any violence??

  • Alan MacDonald

    No, Richard, you are either non-strategic, or an ‘agent provocateur’.

    ONLY PEACEFUL people’s — Political/economic, social, cultural, and racial “Revolution Against Empire” [Justin du Rivage’s 2014 definitive history of our first one] will ever achieve both peaceful and survivable strategic success in overcoming this last and most deadly Disguised Global Crony Capitalist EMPIRE.

  • Drumroll

    It is so clear to me that Trump is evil and his hate-filled rhetoric triggers fear in everyone. The absurdity of that fact is that his voice is so much more powerful than our hundreds of millions of voices should be. That’s the part that gets me activated to do everything I can to stand up for the ideals of democracy – not in my opinion represented by either political party right now. It is clear that he is winning because we are failing the supreme test and have quit believing in “one nation, under God, with liberty and freedom for all.”

  • Hate to say it, but the (total) defeat of the Sanders movement proves beyond argument the people of Moron Nation CANNOT — at least not without Soviet-caliber global socialist leadership (which our Masters have eternally denied us) — overthrow the techno-psychological omnipotence by which we are ever-more-obviously enslaved..

    The Sanders loss is thus the defeat of all humanity and — yes — also of all humanness.

    We have lost not just the present struggle, but EVERY such struggle that was ever waged in our species’ ENTIRE history — but this time (barring the infinite improbability of some genuine miracle) — the loss truly is terminal.

    Forever.

  • John R.

    Ouch but true. Seems like you aren’t into the right-wing D Party offerings either.

  • ThisOldMan

    The two-party “system” is indeed a problem. It exists, as we all know, because plurality voting creates a “spoiler” effect that forces people (as individuals) to vote for one of the two party-chosen presidential candidates. They may both be horrible, but the fact that this system endures shows that most people don’t see them as being equally horrible, and like it or not, that’s what matters.

    While it is of course true in principle that the people (as a whole) could suddenly cry “Kumbaya” and elect a third-party candidate, the U.S.A. is currently more divided than it has been since the Civil War, and that’s just not going to happen anytime soon if ever. Nevertheless there is an achievable route to ending the duopoly, although it does require considerable patience.

    That route is to institute ranked choice voting (RCV) on a state-by-state level via popular referendums. This has already happened for State and Congressional elections in Maine, and its use there in the upcoming presidential election is also being contended (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_United_States ). It is on the ballot this year in Massachusetts, as well.

    Many others will hopefully follow, and that can be achieved by a dedicated minority working in each state to get the requisite referendum on the ballot there, together with a non-partisan education campaign that explains to voters why RCV usually selects winners who better represent of the “will of the people.” See https://www.fairvote.org/.

  • Nylene13

    Bernie was a great loss.

    Bernie being cheated out of the nomination by the DNC TWICE has taught us that change within the current political system is impossible.

    “Work for change within the system” we were told, but no real change has been allowed.

    What to do next, I am not sure.

    Meanwhile-

    Stop buying things.

    Buy only necessities.

    Stop eating meat.

    Stock up on non-perishable healthy foods.

    Organize.

    We outnumber the Rich 100 to 1.

    Change IS possible.

  • Nylene13

    We tried that with Bernie. Got us nowhere.

  • Nylene13

    You do realize that you are the only one up-voting you?

  • Alan MacDonald

    We didn’t try that — because the God-damned DNC TWICE did to Bernie what the same effin DNC did to FDR’s brilliant and socialist VP, Henry Wallace in 1944 by torpedoing Wallace (who had over 55% support in the Convention) and installing the naive and manipulatable little haberdasher< Harry un-Truman — who went on to allow America to devolve into this current Disguised Global Crony Capitalist EMPIRE: installing the CIA, NSA, DSC, etc., etc.' Taft Hartley anti-union, and starting the HUAC McCarthy era/error — until old Ike in '61 outed the MIC — you effin, don't know shit about American history, dolt!

    Instead of running-on in the mouth, Nylene (aged 13), why don't you effin read William Langer's [Harvard History] "Our Vichy Gamble" and Michael Glennon's "National Security and the Double Government" which explains how the OSS researched Hitler's installation of the mere beta-test in a single-party Vichy Regime in Occupied France, and expanded it into a CIA "Double Government" with dual-party Vichy-facades of faux-democracy that allowed this current 21st century Disguised Global Crony Capitalist EMPIRE to start growing like a metastasizing 'Cancer of EMPIRE':

    "President Harry S Truman, more than any other President, is responsible for creating the nation’s “efficient” national security apparatus.20 Under him, Congress enacted the National Security Act of 1947, which unified the military under a new secretary of defense, set up the CIA, created the modern Joint Chiefs of Staff, and established the National Security Council (NSC).21 Truman also set up the National Security Agency, which was intended at the time to monitor communications abroad" — but now "at home".

    Glennon, Michael J.. National Security and Double Government (pp. 12-13). Oxford University Press. Kindle Edition.

    Why not go back to school 13 year old and do something with your head other than growing hair!!

  • il corvo

    Margaret and Kevin where is an article about the protests in London and Berlin around the virus lock-downs? Are you not allowing articles, just like the American MSN, for personal and political reasons? We are being censored enough and you shouldn’t keep information from the people because of your own prejudice.

  • Alan MacDonald

    Because I’m one of the few who understands our history leading up to this Disguised Global Crony Capitalist EMPIRE.

  • Nylene13

    Talk about running off at the mouth………

  • Mensch59

    My concern is that the owners & editors of this website, Popular Resistance, are pro-lockdown and are willing advocates for overt totalitarian social control implements in the name of “public healthcare measures for the public’s good”.

  • chetdude

    Here’s how bad things are in the belly of the beast.

    An email I sent to a friend that included the URL peoplesconvention dot org was automatically marked as spam and my emails have all been blocked and WILL NOT BE DELIVERED.

    FUCK!

  • chetdude

    I’m not concerned.

    We’re lucky that deluded loons like you and your friend corvo are a tiny minority and probably won’t kill that many of us older, more vulnerable folks with your intentional ignorance and tin-foil hat misreading of reality.

  • chetdude

    “electoral” politics is the tail.

    Oligarchy is the dog currently wagging the tail.

    Sanders’ exposed and helped energize the growing Movements that can grow to become a Movement of Movements and wag that tail instead.

  • chetdude

    Yep. “elections” and political parties are the tail.

    Right now the Oligarchy is the dog.

    We the People can grow into a Movement of Movements that could become big enough to wag that tail instead.

  • chetdude

    Empire = Oligarchy = Plutocracy = Corporate dictatorship…

    The trick isn’t naming it, it’s getting people to free their minds and coalesce into a Movement of Movements that can take over instead.

  • chetdude

    “Understanding” our history is not your monopoly.

    But “understanding” it is only the first step on the journey to replace it.

  • chetdude

    I’m with Alan this time.

    The profoundly undemocratic “electoral” system owned by the two wings of the One True Party and run on Plutocrat/Corporate money in the corporate media/propaganda machine was an extreme long shot.

    As I’ve said above (and Alan is trying to say) – politics is the tail – We have to become the dog wagging that tail instead.

  • chetdude

    Sorry, Alan, that’s a rather counter-productive approach to Movement building.

    Nylene is a strong advocate and ally who happens to implement a different productive set of responses – a different style to accomplish the ends we all desire.

    There’s more than one path that leads to Rome.

  • Mensch59

    Good to know that you are part of the CIA-dominated narrative.

  • Nylene13

    Yeah, what he is “trying” to say -but not succeeding.

  • Nylene13

    My comment to you is being held up.

    Go to Lee Camps website and look for link. He just sent it around…..

  • Bill Rood

    “The Two Parties Have Failed Us” is about as far as the truth goes in this limited hangout.

    When is Popular Resistance going to wake to the fact that “the pandemic” was always a scam 1) to shut down the economy and disguise the financial crash that was already occurring 2) to bankrupt small business so the elites could buy them out and 3) to sell in-patent drugs and vaccines. While you’re right that we need single payer, Medicare 4 All, the COVID-19 panscamdemic will not continue to sicken and kill hundreds of thousands. Most who will die have already died, not from Covid-19 but from the corruption, incompetence and malpractice of state institutions who drove their lethal recommendations into an obedient, careerist (ie, banal) medical establishment.

    Will you p-u-l-e-a-s-e start doing some critical thinking of your own and stop this submissive authoritarian deference to the bureaucrats of WHO/CDC/FDA/NIH/NIAID? Why do you assume they are any less susceptible to incompetence and corruption than our foreign policy institutions? Why do you think, after months of fear porn accentuating overflowing morgues and mass graves on Hart Island, suddenly all the mass media focuses on are “cases” driven by increased testing? If they talked about ICUs and deaths, people would quickly figure out there’s no need for masks, social distancing and the destruction of our economy and the lives of healthy people!

    You are right that neither Republocrat party will institute the type of future we want. A strong 3rd party movement is essential, because peaceful demonstrations are only useful so far as there are a few sympathetic people in power that can be shamed, and violent demonstrations will be put down violently. The Democratic Party is so far under the control of corporations that even AOC showed weakness regarding Venezuela. Over the last 4 years it has shown itself quite beyond any reform, much less redemption.

    So let’s look at history to see how a 3rd party in the US can arise. It happened only once, in the 1850s. Republicans won no seats in the House in 1852, and won only 13 seats in 1854, which was 5th best after Democrats, Whigs, Know Nothings and Anti-Nebraska parties. What did happen in 1852 and 1854 was that the Whig Party collapsed, having lost 10 seats in 1852 and 17 more in 1854, when the Know Nothings actually out-polled the Whigs. The Democrats must be destroyed politically, torn from the ground root and branch to make room for a truly progressive anti-war party to catch the sun.

  • Bill Rood

    Corvo, you don’t even have to look at alt-source articles to know the continued lock-downs are a scam. See my earlier comment.

    The globalist elites created Lokin-20 by creating more deaths than otherwise would have occurred in late March, early April and are now continuing the fear porn to foster their Global Reset. The Democrat leadership is an integral part of this, and have created even more chaos by encouraging not just “peaceful protests” but riots and mayhem. This is all TDS-driven. Removing Trump is more important than thousands of seniors sacrificed by seeding nursing homes with active Covid-19 patients discharged by hospitals panicked by a projected flood of patients. Instead of protecting our vulnerable elderly, we sacrificed them for a flood of younger victims that never materialized, and required them to sign DNRs. Removing Trump is more important than the destruction and looting of small businesses in minority communities that provided jobs and goods for that community. Margaret and Kevin have been so good on M4All, Venezuela and many other issues, but they too have TDS, which is why they’re so blind to all this.

    If Margaret and Kevin actually believe these riots will get “progressive” Democrats elected who will then defund or abolish police, bring us M4All and we can live in love forever after, I want some of what they’re smoking. What will happen if there’s a “blue wave” is exactly what our friend here Mensch59 is predicting, medical totalitarianism. Mandatory masks and vaccines, enforced by travel and other restrictions. But it will extend far beyond public health. The contact tracing apps you’re being encouraged to download will see to that.

    Our distress will not change as long as Republicrats are unchallenged. That’s the only valuable part of this essay. The worst of these two parties must be utterly destroyed politically before the other can reasonably be challenged. As I stated in my earlier comment, look to the 1850s. One of the Republocrat Parties must collapse before a truly progressive party can get traction.

    Furthermore, the more vile of the two parties is the Democratic Party. The more democratic party was so open and democratic that it nominated a total political outsider, but the Democratic Party smeared and abused even loyal insiders who sought its nomination. Utilizing rioters, Democrats are willing to destroy the very fabric of American society in order to retain power. They undermined the Constitution by lying to the FISC to spy on Carter Page, then used that information to fuel a fruitless 4 year investigation of Trump. They have encouraged censorship of opinions and facts they don’t like on social media. I could not in good conscience vote for Trump in 2016 and won’t in 2020, but I can live with 4 more years. I refuse to live with onerous travel restrictions and mandatory vaccines, so I will vote for no Democrats in November. I will vote 3rd party when possible and consider voting Republican otherwise. The only exception I would entertain is voting for Shahid Buttar in San Frandisco, because it’s essential to defeat and remove Nancy Pelosi.

  • Bill Rood

    They are blinded by their TDS and rent ignorant on the issue.

  • Mensch59

    I’d at least expect less of an illiberal mindset with the site owners & editors.

  • Nylene13

    I just got an email from Bernie asking me to support Biden.

    I just can’t. Were you able to get into the People’s Convention?

  • Sally McMillan

    It’s too bad that your sunday Webinar was scheduled at the same time as People’s Party Convention. (speakers: Cornel West, Nina Turner, Danny Glover, Marianne Robinson, many others). They are organizing a new party for 2024 and stand for much the same as PR readers and the Green Party which many of them will probably vote for in 2020. It’s time for these parties to work together to gather the followers and the power to exert pressure during these next four years and to make a real change in the system in 2024.

  • William Johnson

    Just shocked by some of the comments here. It saddens me to read so much division when we should be all together as a people. Parties do not matter at this point any more than ideologies. I’m going to go hug my grandchildren, kiss them goodnight and hope y’all do too.

  • jim grazis

    we would be much better off here if the lockdowns initially were followed strickly and the virus would have been under more control before the absurdly quick ”opening up”. maybe an article about the protests in london, etc. could be found on a site comparing the virus to the flu, or one remarking what great patriots those who refuse to wear a mask are, or perhaps the flat earth society.

  • jim grazis

    the lockdown makes scientific sense. try reading a science book, any one will do.

  • Mensch59

    It’s my understanding of science, jim, which informs me that the lockdowns were based on pseudoscience and political incompetence.
    Thanks for the reply, but — from a scientific perspective — you’re not even wrong.

    “Not even wrong” is a phrase often used to describe pseudoscience or bad science.[1] It describes an argument or explanation that purports to be scientific but is based on faulty reasoning or speculative premises that can neither be proven correct nor falsified and thus cannot be discussed in a rigorous and scientific sense.[1] For a meaningful discussion on whether a certain statement is true or false, the statement must satisfy the criterion of falsifiability, the inherent possibility for the statement to be tested and found false. In this sense, the phrase “not even wrong” is synonymous to “nonfalsifiable”.[1]

    The phrase is generally attributed to the theoretical physicist Wolfgang Pauli, who was known for his colorful objections to incorrect or careless thinking.[2][3] Rudolf Peierls documents an instance in which “a friend showed Pauli the paper of a young physicist which he suspected was not of great value but on which he wanted Pauli’s views. Pauli remarked sadly, ‘It is not even wrong’.”[4] This is also often quoted as “That is not only not right; it is not even wrong”, or in Pauli’s native German, “Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; es ist nicht einmal falsch!” Peierls remarks that quite a few apocryphal stories of this kind have been circulated and mentions that he listed only the ones personally vouched for by him. He also quotes another example when Pauli replied to Lev Landau, “What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not.”[4]

  • jim grazis

    i am retired after 35 years in the medical field. i often wore n95 masks for protection. they work. the lockdown was/ is based on scientific principles. i believe in science very much. apparently your understanding needs a lot of work.

  • Mensch59

    I listen to the scientific debate. I don’t listen to people like you who imply that the science is settled that N95 masks are the equivalent of biocontainment suits — you know, the ones used in labs to protect workers from viral pathogens.

  • blessthebeasts

    Why would Bernie support Biden? He’s a sheepdog for the second time.

  • Nylene13

    Bernie thinks Trump is much worse. And he could be right.

    But voting lesser evil gets us nowhere.

  • blessthebeasts

    Bernie couldn’t be that stupid. He knows Biden’s record in the Senate and as vice president is much worse than Trump.
    Come on man!

  • jim grazis

    typical. i NEVER said N95 masks are the equivalent of biocontainment suits i said they work. you need help with reading comprehension? spelling?

  • Mensch59

    I dispute your faith that N95 masks, which are tested to 0.3 microns, filter out coronaviruses which are 0.12 microns in size.
    Because these viral pathogens are so small is why I brought up biocontainment suits. Additionally, I appreciate the research of Denis Rancourt orders of magnitude more than a guy on the internet who claims that he worked in the medical field for 35 years and assures me “N95 masks will protect the wearer from a pathogenic coronavirus”.
    “There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles.” ~ Denis Rancourt
    See also the pdf Denis G. Rancourt PhD April 2020 “Masks Don’t Work: A review of science relevant to COVID-19 social policy”

    Feel free to exercise the prerogative to have the last word. I won’t be replying back.
    Ciao.

  • iowapinko

    I do not support the D-party or Biden. Never have; never will.

    But I believe we have a responsibility to slay the fascist monster that the U$ has produced and that threatens people and planet.

    Nov. 3 I will vote Biden and pray we are able to block FASCISM.

    Nov. 4 I will begin to organize for the Peoples’ party and resist the neo-lib monsters.

    There is no easy answer to the deficit we are sunk within. The U$ is in deep trouble and we have a long struggle ahead in order to pull ourselves out.

    If Trump is re-elected, the doomsday clock indicates we may not survive another 4 years; and, even if we do the environment maybe beyond salvageable.

  • Collectivist

    Correction:

    “The Green Party AIN’T it”. . .but It’ll have to do for now.”

  • Jay Hansen

    What we need to do is forget about political parties and build the instruments of working class liberation. Unions, councils, and anything that spontaneity may yield. Political parties have proven to be a poor way for the working class to organize with. Historically.

  • Nylene13

    I do not see much/any difference between Biden’s support of the Military than Trumps, or the Environment for that matter.

    There was some quote of Biden saying something very anti-Environment, I can’t remember it, perhaps someone else here can.

    I just don’t think Biden is lesser evil enough to matter. His being elected will just encourage the DNC to continue sleeping the the Republicans.

  • Collectivist

    As I’ve said before, Jay, I’m all for building and supporting “Unions, councils, and anything that spontaneity may yield.”

    However, I still think we have yet to fully utilize the weapon of independent political party organizing.

    The historical lessons I’ve learned tell me that it is the political party that ties all the struggles together.

  • Nylene13

    I agree with you.

  • Jay Hansen

    Political parties are, by their very nature, hierarchic. Hierarchy is one of the things that needs to be abolished.

  • Collectivist

    Good point.

  • Bored Now

    I dispute your faith that N95 masks, which are tested to 0.3 microns, filter out coronaviruses which are 0.12 microns in size.

    First of all we need to define what we mean by “filter out”. If we mean “remove all trace of” then sure N95 masks don’t do that but virtually nothing does. On the other hand if we mean “remove some significant percentage of” then sure N95 masks do precisely that. Your idea that because N95 masks are tested at 300nm implies zero protection at 120nm is weird. It assumes that the attenuation done by the filter doesn’t follow a normal distribution (or one with very much spread) like most complex stochastic processes — and when you look at tests of particle penetration by size you find pretty much that. N95 stops somewhere between 50%-80% of particles at the 100nm level.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/45b43677ece51397c25297eb8eab0d50b51ec614cf67f5914d9ad194104be0ba.jpg

    Again I find your attitude broken but interesting. Here you have labelled something “faith”. Not because there is no evidence but because you were simply ignorant of it. I wonder how many other things you do that with.

  • jim grazis

    plenty of sources to support the efficacy of N95 masks, but sharing facts with a trump supporter is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,useless. looked through many of your past comments. what a bitter, little, angry little thing you are.

  • iowapinko

    “What we need to do is forget about political parties and build the instruments of working class liberation.”

    Maybe we can integrate all of the above in order to focus on the priority of organizing the power of the working class.

    At the present moment, we are confronted with the very real prospect of fascist control of the U$ government. I am convinced that 99% of the people who post here have no realistic picture of what that would mean. No, make that 100%. None of us can imagine what a nuclear-armed fascist govt in the year 2020 would bring on.

    It will become a competition between the militarist fascists and the corporate fascists, both racing to extract the last remaining resources for their plunder; which faction will be first to ring the bell of the doomsday clock and end the history of life on the earth?

    The part of this that blows my mind most completely is that highly intelligent people are content to surrender their govt over to a fascist rather than surrender their “vote” to a neo-liberal crook.

    This is how ingrained the political process has become within the american psyche. It is possibly the “gaming” component of politics that has made the process so much a part of our culture; plus the tribal aspect. Plus the media promote politics uber all.

    I watched the People’s Party Convention this weekend (it’s on Youtube). It combined representatives from organized labor, academia, politics, the arts and community activism, many of the elements you think we need to focus on (and I agree).

    This is where the Sanders movement, the Fight-for-15, the more radical unions and elements of BLM and the environmental movement are beginning to coalesce. If we engage in the work necessary to build this MOVEMENT for workiing class empowerment, possibly, just possibly we will not be forced into another lesser evil nightmare 4 years from now.

    What do you think?

  • iowapinko

    Not sure what you mean, C.

  • iowapinko

    Nylene, Biden and Harris are a complete nightmare. But Trump represents a level of danger for people and planet that we have never confronted before.

    Trump is insane on multiple levels. He is capable of unspeakable’ unimaginable criminal acts and he has the means to accomplish it.

    Trump is a fascist with the ability to inspire the worst in american culture. Never forget that Hitler based his model for the Fatherland on american history of genocide and slavery and segregation.

  • Collectivist

    It was in reference to a previous comment about the GP.

  • Jay Hansen

    Show me a political party that is not a hierarchy.

  • Nylene13

    If we do this -elect Biden because Trump is worse-then we will Never be able to elect a truly Progressive President.

    We will only have -to use you word-a choice of which Nightmare to vote for.

    You mention Hitler. There were two men being considered for appointment to rule Germany. Hitler and one other man. Perhaps Hitler was chosen because he was the “lesser evil”.

  • Nylene13

    Could you list websites and links?

  • Nylene13

    We are pretty much together as a people here.
    The Government is a mess.
    We are divided on what to do about it.

  • RickW

    How about, he was visited by “three guys named Guido”……?

  • blessthebeasts

    Trump and Biden are both nightmares. The whole wretched system is.
    However, Biden, in his almost 50 years if “service” has harmed many more people worldwide than Trump has. Among them, the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, black people incarcerated under the crime bill he bragged about writing and many more. When he was VP, more people were deported than under all other administrations combined. The famous caging of children was instituted then also.
    Come on Man!

  • Nylene13

    We need a list showing just what Biden had/does support.
    Very close to Trump.

    I am not at all convinced Biden is the “lesser evil”.
    I suspect Bernie is supporting Biden because he thinks (hopes) a Democratic Party Government would be easier to work with than Trump.

  • blessthebeasts

    We saw how well that worked out with Obama/Biden and their Democrat-controlled Congress.
    I agree that Biden is not the lesser evil. He will be able to get away with much more, as Obama did. The liberals who claim to care so much will slink away as they did under Obama.
    Also the aggression towards Russia is very dangerous and could lead to unthinkable horror.

  • chetdude

    I got a link for the replay of the entire event.

    It a YouTube v=t6u5xPJaW2s

  • chetdude

    Boy, are you ever clueless…that was a really sh*tty guess…

  • chetdude

    Bernie doesn’t “support” Biden.

    Bernie’s more like Cornel West: ‘Vote “for” Joe but Don’t Lie for Him or Endorse Him’

  • chetdude

    I’d have to push back when it comes to those in the swing states.

    Gotta’ get enough votes there to get rid of Trump. Then we can relentlessly oppose his replacement. Since he has to at least pretend he’s “nicer” than Trump, there’s a one in a thousand chance of unintended consequences — progress…

  • chetdude

    Show me a socioeconomic or political hierarchy that isn’t existentially dangerous.

  • chetdude

    The Green Party has made valiant attempts to learn to be non-hierarchical but alas the programming of disgruntled democrats in leadership positions and a large number of authoritarian followers in the ranks have made consensus building difficult.

  • Mensch59

    Not so. You people — who push the idea that those who disagree with you wear tin-foil hats being totally into conspiracy theories — have allied yourselves with a CIA narrative.
    Deny it to your heart’s content.

  • chetdude

    “You People”??? WTF???

    As I said, you’re utterly clueless about who I am…

  • Mensch59

    I described the “you people” I’m referring to.
    You started in with the “tin foil hat” insult, chet.
    I know enough about you and your ilk from that meme.

  • Nylene13

    Good. I will watch it.

  • Mensch59

    Exceptionally good post, Bill.
    That’s why it was ignored on this Demotool and “We need to trust in the government’s response to Covid”-friendly website.

  • Hi Gee… When we have to wear a mask in a store, we use Duck tape… It filters out everything… We plug our nose with wet cotton balls…. Sometimes we pass out though.

    The Covid Virus BS is BS, no masks work… live with the Covid 19 the same as we live or die the flu.

  • sabateur

    from
    New Normal Gleichschaltung, or: The Storming of the Reichstag Building on 29 August, 2020

  • sabateur

    agree, and see my excerpt from the consent factory most recent.

  • sabateur

    isn’t the CIA a leftist org ? 😉

  • sabateur

    boring old meme. i’ve had it thrown at me a lot.

  • sabateur

    extraordinarily silly.

  • sabateur

    BELIEVE in science, there’s a rub all ready.

  • sabateur

    indeed!

  • sabateur

    agree!

  • sabateur

    you mean designated all deaths covid?
    and generally put out [ really very much nonsense if one thinks ] propaganda that people believe, for a to me inexplicable reason.

    this is global and not remotely connected to political parties.

    politicos are mostly just puppets of the 1%/corporate, never more so than now.

  • sabateur

    good points.

  • sabateur

    could be 🙁

  • sabateur

    what do those 2 terms mean?

  • sabateur

    i AM older, vulnerable folk. luckily not in a nursing home.

    i’ve not believed a word of the fakedemic since i first read about dead bodies in wuhan.

    the propaganda is not even good, the info was all there and the ”sensible” majority that you mention simply followed the inconsistent propaganda, willingly. it’s baffling.

  • jim grazis

    worthless, useless comment.

  • jim grazis

    ”scamdemic”? lolol. Qanon, trumpbily, chronic drunk. which fits your ravings the best?

  • Mensch59

    You are deranged.
    I don’t “support” Trump. I don’t reside in the USA.
    For someone to actually write to another person “what a bitter, little, angry little thing you are” indicates a malignancy of the mind. I hope that you can get the help that you desperately need soon.
    Good luck.

  • Mensch59

    The ways that we are being told to deal with a new coronavirus indicates that we live under the control of extremely sick governments.
    As bad as Trump is, these sick governments didn’t start with him and they won’t end when he’s no longer POTUS.

  • jim grazis

    go get a hug from your mommy pal. and, then try and act like a reasonable adult, in other words….grow up.

  • Mensch59

    My mother is receiving hospice care, creep.
    Since you are an example of the “N95 masks will protect us from the new coronavirus” crowd and since these are the quality of your words, politically and healthcare-wise, I’m gratified to not be on the same side you’re on.
    It just goes to show that anti-Trumpers can be as demented (or more so) than the mega MAGA crowd.
    I feel sorry for America and for deranged Americans like yourself.
    Stay a creep.
    It doesn’t bother me.

  • Jay Hansen

    I am directly familiar with the Green Party. It is at the center of my dislike of political parties.

  • Jay Hansen

    Prezactly.

  • Collectivist

    Worth repeating:

    “I just don’t think Biden is lesser evil enough to matter. His being elected will just encourage the DNC to continue sleeping with the Republicans”

  • Mensch59

    You want to avoid discussing what went down on SteelPirate’s blog?

  • jim grazis

    i’m on the side of the intelligent in the human race. you appear to be on the bat shit crazy anti- science/ conspiracy side. have a lousy day pal.

  • Mensch59

    You are on the side of the demented and the deranged. That’s more than apparent. That you call this side “intelligent” is you stating black is white and evil is good and “War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength”.

  • chetdude

    Nope, you are familiar with a tiny, tiny segment of the “Green Party”.

    The basic values, goals and agenda of the Green Party is significantly superior to that of the two-right-wings of the One True Duopoly and nearly every other “party” of any size.

  • Jay Hansen

    Parties morph into what parties morph into. I’m done with them.

  • chetdude

    No you don’t.

  • Mensch59

    Yes, I do.

  • Collectivist

    No statement will be forthcoming at this time.😎Or ever.

    Sorry for the inconvenience.

  • Nylene13

    Chris Hedges speech from that event is posted on this Popular Resistance site today (August 2) as one of the other Articles.

  • Mensch59

    Avoidance of discussion says enough.

  • Bored Now

    It’s my understanding of science, jim, which informs me that the lockdowns were based on pseudoscience and political incompetence

    So contact with fewer people doesn’t result in lower numbers of people getting infected?

  • Mensch59

    Regarding “political-economic education”: I’ve always been rather entertained by your attitude that you see yourself as an educator and that you need to post links to prove what you think (or believe) you know for the benefit of others. As a fellow college drop-out, I don’t pretend to have the qualifications to teach anyone. (No doubt that will give you more ammunition to throw back in my face, as is your wont.) My sense of (healthy) self-esteem comes from elsewhere, not having to try to prove to others how much I believe I think I know.

    When it comes to one of your favorite insults (i.e. those who rely on “Cliff Notes”), you are only referring to yourself. Have fun. I hope that you find some other place to put up OP’s and comment where your cyberspacial free speech is not enclosed.
    Ciao.

  • STOP MANIPULATING DISQUS. EVERYONE THIS GUY IS RUNNING A NET OF SOCK PUPPET ACCOUNTS. HE UPLOADS HIS OWN COMMENTS

  • IVE GOT YOUR NETWORK FIGURED OUT. You are running multiple sock puppet accounts, EVERYONE REPORT THIS ACCOUNT AND ALL HIS UPVOTE SOCK ACCOUNTS TO DISQUS

  • MIKE STEVENS -REALITY022- BOREDNOW -TOMONTHEBAY REPORT THESE ACCOUNTS , ITS A SOCK PUPPET TEAM OF THE SAME USER RUNNING A COUNTER PROGRAM. THEY ARE ABUSING DIQUS

  • MIKE STEVENS -REALITY022- BOREDNOW -TOMONTHEBAY Dont listen to anything they say, they are running counterinformation socknet system . Its all one user. Report them

  • Mensch59

    Sorry for the inconvenience.

    No worries. Now that you are dealing with the enclosure of cyberspace again with the “Leftist Politics” blog having gone to the grave, it might be good for us to stop communicating.

  • jim grazis

    more bat shit crazy. laughable, but boring in inconsequential.

  • zak1

    SOME IMMEDIATE, ACTIONABLE IDEAS TO PROMOTE THIRD PARTIES IN 2020

    1. Howie Hawkins can invite Jo Jorgenson to join him in a series of national debates, as a PR move to push for their inclusion in the presidential debates, and to build awareness of these alternatives (this idea came from John Stauber in 2016)

    2. Howie Hawkins and Angela Walker can publicly challenge Nick Brana and the leaders of the People’s Party Movement to one or more debates on whether People’s Party members and other DemExiters should support the Green campaign in 2020 – Hawkins/Walker and their supporters can also call out Brana for repeatedly and misleadingly painting the Greens as a washed-up, “obsolete” party (example – see his interview with Glen Ford on Black Agenda Report)

    3. Angela Walker can publicly call out Kamala Harris and challenge her to a debate about what it means to properly represent the interests of minority communities

    4. Hawkins and Walker can bring more high profile and famous figures onto their weekly YouTube chats to draw more attention to their campaign and their channel (Danny Haiphong just interviewed NBA champion David West and got 35,000 views)

    5. Sympathetic left media like Popular Resistance, Black Agenda Report, Socialist Alternative, and other media supportive of third parties like the Greens, can agree to form a coordinated coalition specifically with the stated goal of covering the Greens and other third party developments, on a WEEKLY BASIS, to assert and promote as widely as possible their ongoing existence and relevance, and to openly confront and challenge the progressive media for refusing to cover them – to make AS MUCH NOISE AS POSSIBLE ABOUT THIRD PARTY ALTERNATIVES IN 2020

    6. The Green Party can start promoting itself as something UNIQUE in American politics today, and inherently worthy of ongoing progressive coverage – as THE ONLY NATIONAL NON-CORPORATE PARTY – THE ONLY ONE THAT’S BEEN ABLE TO SURVIVE INDEPENDENTLY OUTSIDE CORPORATE AND DUOPOLY INFLUENCE, AND ON A NATIONAL SCALE, FOR 35 YEARS – this is an incredible success story – on these grounds, they should confront progressive media for doing a disservice to their readers by not covering the Greens – how can progressive media justify not covering the only progressive party?

    7. Hawkins and Walker can further promote the notion of VOTING AS A FORM OF LOBBYING – a way for individuals to lobby for the policies they want

    – why aren’t the Greens trumpeting their victories as a party?

  • Mensch59

    I’ll go with “jim grazis is projecting.”
    You’re correct though about this exchange being inconsequential.
    As inconsequential as your insistence that N95 masks protect the public from viral pathogens.

  • sabateur

    being pro science is believing propaganda?
    good heavens, i can think of a few scientists spinning in their graves. bruno for one!

  • sabateur

    working pros do exist in many discussions.

  • sabateur

    sadly not only americans.

  • jim grazis

    someone who uses the term ‘fakedemic” is not worth another second of my time. on to the laughable/ ignore list boy.

  • Bored Now

    For some reason I didn’t bring up your reference to Raincourt and his “review”. I have a hard time believing you actually read that document. Some of the research it references is so ridiculously inapplicable that it’s hard to believe he’s even . The first study he mentions, which took place in a facility in Japan practically had me laughing. Not only does it not represent the situation most mandatory mask policies are positing but it’s so ridiculously under-powered that it’s useless. The control group only had one case.

    So I’m not sure this is good evidence of you “listening to the scientific debate”. This is more you listening hard to someone who is saying things you want to hear.

  • Bored Now

    When is Popular Resistance going to wake to the fact that “the pandemic” was always a scam

    So there is no virus? The number of cases is over reported? How did it coincide with whatever financial problem you think is related? How did all these different world governments happen to have the same plan?

  • jim grazis

    nothing from someone who knows even less.

  • Mensch59

    Keep projecting, jimbo. Practice makes perfect.

  • Americans are sick. That’s why our numbers are up. 3% world deaths and 3% US deaths. going down slowly. What is wrong with that? You want ZERO deaths. How many lifetimee smokers die evry day? How many obese eaters of GMO gt sick and sicker evry day. They are the PANDEMICS!

  • fINALLY SCIENTIFIC QUESTIONS ARE BEING ASKED. Too little too late?

  • Mensch59
  • sabateur

    :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

  • Bored Now

    your insistence that N95 masks protect the public from
    viral pathogens.

    Since I’ve already provided evidence of attenuation at the 100nm (and smaller) threshold. The person who seems to have an irrational faith about N95 would be you. Right?

  • Mensch59

    Your point?
    I guess it’s to prove that you can copy and paste articles from anywhere to any other website.
    What did you want to discuss about this copy and paste?

  • Mike Stevens

    Try this:
    https://davidkylejohnson.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/a-complete-debunking-of-denis-rancourts-argument-that-masks-dont-work/

  • Mike Stevens

    Sorry, can you speak up please?
    …Were you saying something about “DIQUS”?

  • Mensch59

    I’ll go with the former professor of physics instead of the associate professor of history.

  • Mike Stevens

    Why don’t you just go with the evidence?
    That’s what scientists do, rather than fall prey to illogical arguments from authority.

  • I can see you’ve already cleaned up some of the problems that gave you guys away already. But you’re still responding to me, I’ll assume you have not yet exhausted all the options on your “how to respond, if a), b), c) ect ect.. let me know when your all out of responses.

  • I can promise you, unlike your wise guy behavior to other people online, you will not win this game with me. the underweb has you folks completely exposed already.

  • Mensch59

    Denis Rancourt argues the evidence better than David K. Johnson.
    Shills for BigPharma like you and the sycophants, lackeys, brown-nosers, toadies who follow you around from place to place will never acknowledge which side of the issue better argues the evidence from the authority of Reason.

    “Doctors have a monopoly of medicine just as parsons have of God. You can’t get a parson to admit the arguments of an agnostic, because his salary depends on his not letting the agnostic refute him; and you can’t get an ordinary doctor to look kindly on psychoanalysis or autosuggestion because their success would make him superfluous.” ~ C.E.M. Joad

    Getting you and your ilk to see the psychological warfare operation aspect of Covid-19 is futile. I’ll not try reasoning with you and your ilk, because you and your ilk are completely deluded, deceived, demented — and prefer it that way. I’ll focus my energy on people less indoctrinated than you and your ilk.

  • Mensch59

    The debate between those two was already highlighted in an article on the blog Dissident Voice titled “The Logic of Mask Wearing” by Kim Petersen posted on August 26th, 2020 and re-posted on The Digger/new levellers on 27 August 2020.
    I’m not going to waste my time rehashing the same argument with you on Disqus on this Popular Resistance site.

    If you want to take it up on The Digger/new levellers, you can post to me there by tagging me.

  • Mike Stevens

    And you are qualified to weigh the scientific and medical evidence how, exactly?

    As for indoctrination, all I’ve asked of you is to look at the totality of evidence. It’s you who is rejecting anything that is contrary to your ideological bias, so clearly you are suffering from significant projection here.

    I’m surprised you claim I am a shill for BigPharma, when I’m trying to promote means to reduce spread of this infection.
    Logically, those who wish to see it spread without any restrictions would be the ones who stand to benefit most… because their Pharma puppet masters will make money treating the sick.
    So it looks like you are the shill for BigPharma, not me.
    If anything, it might be justifiable to accuse me of shilling for BigMask. Pity I didn’t buy up a couple of cotton farms 6 months back, complete with traditional labour. 😉

  • Mike Stevens

    The “underweb”?
    …Is that some confabulation like the Deep State?

  • Mensch59

    …you are qualified to weigh the scientific and medical evidence how, exactly?

    Reason. Logic. The rules of evidence.

    … all I’ve asked of you is to look at the totality of evidence…

    I already directed you to the debate between Denis Rancourt and David K. Johnson.

    I can do without the rest of your word salad.

  • Have a nice day sir.

  • Why don’t you ask the Democrats what they think about the Deep State. Ask Mike Lofgren. Go ahead and search him out on Youtube and watch his interview. Other than that I cant help you. And the underweb is a large part of the internet, but I already made clear you guys dont understand internet technology. Why dont you google “underweb” as well while you are at it.

  • Mensch59

    It’s you who is rejecting anything that is contrary to your ideological bias, so clearly you are suffering from significant projection here.

    I’m merely rejecting you — a random stranger on the internet and your gaggle of lackeys — and not “rejecting anything that is contrary to [my] ideological bias.” It’s not like I’m going to grant you and your ilk a shred of credence to analyze from afar by biases or my ideas, opinions, beliefs.
    Maybe you and your ilk have a difficult time being rejected on social media.
    Get over it.
    Accept being rejected by people who trust their own ability to think and reason instead of you and your ilk doing the thinking and reasoning for other people about “illogical arguments” and “ideological bias” and “the totality of the evidence”. Setting yourself up as an authority on these topics I have in quotation marks — probably because of your medical status, which I also reject btw — is your specialty on these threads.
    Kindly, buzz off.

  • Mike Stevens

    Except I wasn’t asking that you consider my opinion, just that you consider the evidence.
    Again, the level of projection I’m seeing from you is quite astounding.
    If you want me to “buzz off”, then I suggest you stop responding to me.

  • Mike Stevens

    Careful now, someone like you using the word “nice” online merits at least an Apache blackhelicopter response.
    Best slap on that tinfoil helmet and run down to your basement Faraday chamber.

  • you mad that you were exposed ?

  • Mensch59

    You started posting to me on this thread; now I’m asking you to stop.
    Are you the one who has to exercise the troll’s prerogative to have the last word?

  • Mensch59

    When you are referring to someone’s “biased ideology”, you are referring to their ideas, beliefs opinions.
    You have opinions on which side of a debate is evaluating the evidence more robustly utilizing reason.
    You are not in possession of the truth or certainty — except in your own head according to your own opinion of yourself.
    I challenge these opinions, i.e. your opinions of “the totality of the evidence” and of “ideological bias” and of “illogical arguements”, and you don’t like being challenged.
    Well, too bad.
    Suck it up, buttercup.

  • Mike Stevens

    Classic projection, yet again sweetie pie.

  • Mike Stevens

    You think the raving accusations of some internet loon are “exposure”?
    😂🤣😂

  • Bored Now

    You can’t get a parson to admit the arguments of an agnostic, because his salary depends on his not letting the agnostic refute him;

    While that’s easily falsified**, it’s worth pointing out that far more people are willing to die rather than admit some argument without receiving so much as a penny.

    So it’s questionable whether the degree that parsons resist agnositcism is attributable to pecuniary factors or something else.

    So the real question is whether the person you are talking to is resisting a position because the argument is poor or whether due to zealotry.

    One decent litmus is how they respond to contrary information. The zealot has no ability to accept and no ability to process contrary information. So they dismiss, plug their ears, relegate the speaker to some dismissable group, namecall.

    The fair and rational person, even one who is sincerely wrong will at least try and deal with the argument presented.

    …and here we have you.

    I’ll not try reasoning with you and your ilk, because you and your ilk are completely deluded, deceived, demented — and prefer it that way.

    QED.

    **Recently YouGov interviewed 1500 Anglican clergy and found that 2% didn’t even believe in God. Probably a larger percentage consider agnosticism a viable hypothesis and more still consider it at least possible.

  • Bored Now

    and not “rejecting anything that is contrary to [my] ideological bias.

    You are very likely doing this. I can easily prove it one way or the other. If this is simply a question of rejecting my personal knowledge. Then let’s not use that, lets use the knowledge in dozens of statistical textbooks and evidence you can get by running your own experiments using freely downloadable statistical software.

    We’ll then take, say the first study in the Rancourt’s article on masks and I’ll show you how to determine using your own reasoning ability how it’s not really applicable to mask mandates.

    If you can’t accept this then clearly you’re not rejecting my knowledge. Therefore you are rejecting my conclusion. Hence you are exceptionally biased.

    Feel free to prove me wrong.

  • sabateur

    🙂

  • oh its ok. You have been exposed to be a reality hacker. But boomers like you probably dont even know what that means. Why dont you go report me to Disqus now, so I can share with them how you guys are manipulating their platform.

  • Mike Stevens

    No, please, go report me for complying with Disqus rules, and see how far you get.
    What will your whine be I wonder…
    “Mike Stevens is a nasty boy because he has some followers on Disqus who upvote his posts” maybe?
    …good luck with that, loser.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Indeed. Either that, or they’re individual shills willingly spreading establishment propaganda.

    My guess is they receive some benefit for spreading disinformation.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    Scientists = the new clergy. Never to be doubted. Always honest, incorruptible, and never self-serving.

    Any scientist that contradicts doctrine is banished to the hinterlands of censorship, ridicule, and ignominy.

    Your faith is dangerous.

  • there is absolutely no debate in my mind that they are not individual shills. I followed the entire group around for a few days and have proven without a doubt that their intent is to work as a group and manipulate the comment sections. It doesnt matter what time of day or how late the response. 24 hours a day their comment behavior proves their behavior is completely inorganic and inauthentic. And the funny part is even though I only shared this with a couple of them, once I pointed out their mistakes they ALL started to clean up what was giving them away. So even people I did not speak to started to behave with their accounts that made them look like there responses and voting habits were more organic.

  • i dont need to report you, ive accomplished my goal.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    As opposed to you – listening hard to someone who signs your paycheck.

  • CoCoLuv9491

    They are definitely birds of a feather. Could be one bird, as you say, or a flock of assigned grifters.

  • Mike Stevens

    If your goal was to pass yourself off as a total dic&#8203khead, then yup, …you’ve accomplished it.

  • Bored Now

    I just focus on reason, logic and math. Sorry.

  • Mike Stevens

    Have you ever read a science book?

  • sabateur

    is that how real scientists science ? 😉

  • Mike Stevens

    No, but you aren’t a scientist. You need to get some grade 4 background to get a concept of what science means and some rudiments on the scientific method.
    Small steps, Sabel/schpadoinkle/sabateur/whatever sockpuppet you are today.

  • sabateur

    oh dear dactar mickey, you’re embarrassing yourself again 🙁

  • Mike Stevens

    Do I detect more projection from you, Sabelmouse/Sabateur/Schpadoinkle/Whichever sockpuppet you are today?

  • How important is it that you get the last word in ? im curious how long you will spend energy responding. are you sure you’re not being paid to respond and counter comments ?

  • cechas vodobenikov

    “only in United States has nationalism carried with it the christian meaning of the sacred. the revelation of America serves to blight and ultimately preclude the possibility of fundamental social change”. Sacvan Bercovitch (2012)
    “the amerikan world view is nihilism with a happy ending”. Alan Bloom

  • cechas vodobenikov

    drivel—the physicist Dennis Rancourt references 12 studies; not one demonstrates masks prevent viral transmission

  • cechas vodobenikov

    apparently you believe any ruling class lie you are told

  • cechas vodobenikov

    amerikans believe anything described as scientific without question”. Geoffrey Gorer
    “amerikans fetishize science; it is the most aggressive dogmatic and aggressive of religions in amerika, that like all religions should be separated from the state”. Paul Feyerabend

  • cechas vodobenikov

    “the scientific attitude is naive and dishonest” M Merleau-Ponty
    “Obama’s job is to lie to a nation of liars”. Prof. Kiese Laymon

  • cechas vodobenikov

    idiot—-according to the US dept of public health 15% of the decisions made by US physicians are based upon empirical evidence…u r a religious zealot

  • cechas vodobenikov

    your ignorance is spectacular—nations that did not declare martial law and where masks are rare experience far fewer fatalities than those that did/do

  • cechas vodobenikov

    your zealotry is obvious; only a fool attempts to argue with a fool

  • cechas vodobenikov

    you are prima facie wrong—your fatuous stupidity is spectacular….contradicted by numerous European virologists

  • Bored Now

    Except that unlike Mensch59, I seem to have the ability to accept and process contrary information.

    You’re not looking so good in that department. 🙂

  • cechas vodobenikov

    u have already demonstrated that u r immune to evidence—go away

  • cechas vodobenikov

    ….”amerikans do not remember, they do not feel; amerikans live in a materialist dream”. M Ostrogorski
    “it is as if all the sensitiveness has dried up in amerikans…the crystallization of love is impossible in USA…amerikans feel themselves lacking in something…” Stendhal
    apparently you have no training in either symbolic or doxastic logic

  • cechas vodobenikov

    “amerikans cannot think except by means of slogans–they identify garbage as quality. the stupidity and ignorance of amerikans has long been a topic of hilarity in Europe”. Paul Fussell

  • cechas vodobenikov

    “amerikans believe anything described as scientific without question”. Geoffrey Gorer
    jim is insecure—infantilized
    good luck

  • cechas vodobenikov

    obviously your stupidity is spectacular—explain why there r so few covid deaths in locations that did not declare martial law or require masks…..u cannot

  • Bored Now

    you are prima facie wrong

    About what? Here all I’m saying is that I can demonstrate Mesch59 is not really rejecting me but rather my conclusions. Since we can, just using information from statistics textbooks and statistical experiments they can run themselves demonstrate that the first study in Rancourt uses in his article on masks is irrelevant to mask mandates.

    contradicted by numerous European virologists

    Please post four European virologists who clearly and exclusively address this first study used by Rancourt that I’m referring to and claim that it is clearly applicable to current mask mandates.

    I’ll wait.

  • Bored Now

    I’m not American. I have spent a fair amount of time studying logic. I guess you’re wrong again. Sorry.

  • Bored Now

    Whatever you are trying to discuss does not negate the fact that N95 masks do attenuate particles at the 100 nm level. Guess you’re wrong again. Sorry.

  • Mike Stevens

    You talk of nations declaring “Martial law”, and call me “ignorant”?
    …Crawl back to your IRA hole on the St Petersburg troll farm, Cechas.

  • rat doctor

    Mike is correct.

  • jim grazis

    ”a religious zealot”? calling me an ”idiot” over a post simply stating n95 masks work well? i have been an atheist my entrie life. lololol. what ould religion have to do with my statement about masks? why call me an idliot over my opinion on masks? are you drunk? just another common fool? both?

  • jim grazis

    pretty much the exact opposite. you are good for a laugh.

  • cechas vodobenikov

    while c19 exists it is hardly worse than seasonal flu—studies in 3 US prisons found that 1400 tested positive yet only 3 individuals had any symptoms….many nations dis not declare martial law, closed nothing, did not require masks and covid fatalities are far fewer than those that did

  • cechas vodobenikov

    self loathing amerikan–laughing at yourself

  • cechas vodobenikov

    not only Germany, UK—also Russia, Slovenia, Serbia….only 1 city locked down in Russia–moscow and 2/3 of all fatalities r attributed of the 18,000…petersburk didn’t , fewer than 2000. Uruguay, Belarus didn’t—few fatalities…netherlands didn’t–few
    if NY state was a nation it would be the worse effected…nations that did are the worst…Peru, Belgium, N Italy, Spain, France

  • cechas vodobenikov

    more covid fascism–covid robot

  • cechas vodobenikov

    falsifiability, verifiability serves from Popper—thoroughly discredited…natural scientific method involves, description, explanation and prediction —probability….we can predict a chemical reaction with a high degree of probability
    disease transmission is difficult given that physical distance, touching, immunity, obesity, health care, density, climate,mobility, etc vary tremendously

  • cechas vodobenikov

    “the most zealous religion in amerika is atheism”. George Simmel
    “amerikans fetishize science; it is the most aggressive and dogmatic of religions in amerika that like all religions should be separated from the state” Paul Feyerabend
    apparently you r so dimwitted u do not comprehend that the fascist US govt and corporations fund all US “science”
    LOL
    any one that has read Godel’s incompleteness proofs is fully aware science is neither neutral or objective
    “elements of physics are inherently irrational”. Max Planck. he couldn’t know anything—LOL
    sure…Plalck invent quantum physics! duh

  • cechas vodobenikov

    ignorant child from durakistan…”amerikans cannot think except by means of slogans–they identify garbage as quality. the stupidity and ignorance has long been a topic of hilarity in Europe”. Paul Fussell
    LOL
    so stupefied you cannot distinguish rhetorical fallacy from symbolic, doxastic or fuzzy logic

    MOre LOL

  • cechas vodobenikov

    I would be humiliated if I “looked good” to an idiot
    information and facts are irrelevant–evidence is what matters…validity, reliability and relevance….u apparently do not comprehend these concepts

  • cechas vodobenikov

    again false—there is no money in covid treatments for Pharma…choloquinine, iv Vit C, etc—used successfully in Asai, Europe, S amerika…u misuse the word “logic” as do nearly all amerikans

  • sabateur

    :))))

  • cechas vodobenikov

    Tegnell in Sweden, Russian virologists, the Dutch health minister have all publicly stated that there is zero evidence that masks prevent viral transmissions

  • cechas vodobenikov

    more drivel–u cannot think…u refer a sycophant that claims she is trained in logic—logic is irrelevant…johnson is an idiot…vast evidence contradicts these fatuous dissimulations

  • sabateur

    i hate to say this but you seem frighteningly unintelligent.

  • cechas vodobenikov

    tell what is Kant’s conception of “reason”….what is Fichte’s? Hegel’s, Kojeve’s, Plato’s? Popper’s? clearly not the same are they…duh

  • cechas vodobenikov

    “only in the anglosphere are people unable to make connections”. Richard Sennet (fluent in both French/Russian). Cambridge U…apparently u have no awareness of philosophy
    “the monolingual inevitably confuses style with content”. G simmel…your narrow anglophone thinking is tiresome

  • cechas vodobenikov

    more puerile false equivalence—they apparently don’t teach the concept of relevance in your trailer park

  • cechas vodobenikov

    your expected fascist notion re colonialism is contradicted by Marx who observed that colonialism provided material, cultural benefits and technological benefits —-many tribes and ethnic/linguistics sought to integrate with nation states and empires for these benefits and to protect themselves from primitive violent tribes

  • cechas vodobenikov

    false–trump is the only Us president that has not attacked another nation since WWII—all dems have been more imperialist than trump

  • cechas vodobenikov

    hierarchy is required —lacking an ideological vanguard everything is reduced to populism which degenerates into fascism, observed by Fanon, Sartre, Kropotkin, etc

  • Collectivist

    Indeed, comfort corruption and crass pragmatism often causes the colonized to collude with the colonizers. A human contradiction, imo.

    Then, there’s always the armed-to-the-teeth, ‘official’, defenders of the colonizers, ready to resort to the most vicious terrorism and murder, in case they don’t capitulate.

  • Bored Now

    is hardly worse than seasonal flu

    Citation Needed.

  • Bored Now

    evidence is what matters

    Evidence suggests that Mensch59 has trouble accepting and processing contrary information and to some degree you have this difficulty as well.

  • Bored Now

    that there is zero evidence that masks prevent viral transmissions

    Except that wasn’t the question. I was talking about how one specific study, was being used in one specific paper. That was the point. Maybe you want to try again.

  • Bored Now

    false equivalence

    No, the claim that N95 masks do not attenuate objects at the 100nm level was the claim of the person I was responding to. So, I guess you’re wrong again. Sorry.

  • Bored Now

    I’m not monolingual. Sorry. Wrong again.

  • Jay Hansen

    Bullshit.

  • rat doctor

    the laughter of a fool.

  • jim grazis

    you’re on to the list of 5 year olds/ blocked.

  • sabateur

    you sound like…….

  • cechas vodobenikov

    “amerikans r ignorant and unteachable” GEORGE SANTAYANA

  • cechas vodobenikov

    C IS confused—Nixon did this; liberals opposed his desire to implement universal health care and were upset at his wage and price controls

  • cechas vodobenikov

    more absence of historical awareness…unsurprising…the Ossetians joined the Russian empire in order to protected from turkic tribes that raped their women and enslved them…true in the Ottoman, Mongol etc empire

  • cechas vodobenikov

    an idiot that believes any ruling class ideology u r trained to believe—the nations that never closed any thing and where freedom is cherished—no face diapers—enjoy the fewest covid fatalities…those that declared covid fascism and require masks r plagued w the most deaths per capita–NYstate, Spain, Peru, northern Italy, Belgium France…
    “amerikan liberals and conservatives equally misuse science”. Susan Jacoby

  • cechas vodobenikov

    more stupidity—viruses less than 10 microns typically

  • cechas vodobenikov

    obviously u r unable to comprehend sufficient vs necessary condition

  • cechas vodobenikov

    too stupid, incurious and lazy to research your self…typical murikan

  • Bored Now

    viruses less than 10 microns typically

    COVID-19 is around 120nm (0.12 microns). N95 Masks still attenuate significantly particles of the size of 100nm (0.1 microns)

    Not sure if you simply fail logic or math here.

  • Bored Now

    too stupid, incurious and lazy to research your self.

    In other words, you have no virologists who address this specific paper. Do you? Making your original assertion irrelevant. Thanks.

    typical murikan

    Not American, wrong for something like the fourth or fifth time.

  • Bored Now

    obviously u r unable to comprehend sufficient vs necessary condition

    Obviously you can’t find some random quote to insult either my ethnicity or the number of languages I comprehend. Come back when you have actually learned to make an argument.

  • Collectivist

    More gobbledygook

  • Jay Hansen

    Russians (?) are prone to unsupported assertions.

  • chetdude

    You’re wrong on every level…