The United States Is Where COVID-19 Deaths Are Being Under-reported

| Educate!

Above photo: Refrigerated trucks parked outside of a New York City hospital. Screenshot from Twitter of @bestgug.

While the United States government and corporate media point fingers at China, accusing the Chinese government of under-reporting the number of deaths from COVID-19, it is actually the US and not China that has that problem.

When the COVID-19 pandemic started, China responded quickly by reporting the novel disease to the World Health Organization and taking steps to identify and study the virus. Within a matter of weeks, it was clear that the virus was a serious public health matter. China then mobilized its resources and took an aggressive public health approach to contain the spread and care for those who became ill. For this, the US chastised China, calling it “authoritarian” and “draconian,” instead of learning from the success of China.

So far, China has controlled the virus, keeping the total number of cases below 82,000 and the number of deaths in the low 3,000’s. Today, they are easing the quarantine, opening businesses back up and slowly returning to normal activity. The World Health Organization sent a mission to China that commended the government for its actions. Jim Naureckas of Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting writes there is no evidence that China is hiding data. Quite the opposite, researchers in the West have been combing through China’s data to see what they can learn.

Contrast that with the United States where there has been a total lack of leadership at the national level leaving states to compete with each other for resources and fend for themselves. The total number of COVID-19 cases that have been reported is close to 400,000 and is rising by tens of thousands daily. The total number of reported deaths is over 12,000. New York alone has almost 140,000 reported cases and almost 7000 deaths, placing it in close range to Italy and Spain, which rank second and third in the world for the most cases.

Now, evidence indicates that the number of COVID-19 cases in the United States is likely to be much higher than what is being reported. The University of Texas at Austin reports it is likely that only one in ten cases of COVID-19 in the United States is being reported. This means the United States is closer to 4 million cases of COVID-19. They write that: “If a county has detected only one case of COVID-19, there is a 51% chance that there is already a growing outbreak underway. COVID-19 is likely spreading in 72% of all counties in the US, containing 94% of the national population. Proactive social distancing, even before two cases are confirmed, is prudent.”

The number of deaths from COVID-19 is also being under-reported. McClatchy found that there was a spike of deaths from pneumonia in the US in late February and early March that were not caused by the flu. They write:

“There has been an increase in pneumonia deaths unrelated to the flu — showing that the deaths could be caused by the coronavirus, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Pneumonia deaths have been on the rise since late February, outpacing the percentage of flu-related deaths, the CDC said. One explanation, according to the CDC, is that some people are dying of pneumonia after contracting the coronavirus….

Doctors said that some coronavirus deaths in February and early March were misidentified as being caused by the flu or pneumonia, The New York Times reported.”

Recently, Mark Levine, the Chair of the New York City Health Council, tweeted this message out:

And ABC News issued this grim report today:

Now, with the public and private hospital networks in New York City overwhelmed to the point of drowning, there are no resources or time to test samples from the dead or resolve statistical problems, officials acknowledged. At the moment, hospitals in New York City are only testing for novel coronavirus among hospitalized patients.”

Testing is the foundation of a public health approach to controlling the spread of infectious diseases. The commonsense approach is to screen everyone for symptoms, test those who are likely to be positive and isolate them until the results are in. If they test positive, they need to be quarantined and monitored for worsening disease and all of their recent contacts need to be located and tested too. This will give a better idea of where the disease hotspots are but it won’t identify everyone who is infectious because about half to three-quarters of those who have COVID-19 are asymptomatic and people are highly infectious in the few days before symptoms appear.

It is unlikely that such an approach will be implemented in the United States. There is a severe lack of everything – tests, personal protective equipment, hospital beds, ventilators, public health staff, and healthcare providers. New York City is in a severe crisis state and there are many other cities that are likely to be just a few weeks behind New York in terms of the severity of the situation.

The best we can do right now is to heed the advice to distance ourselves physically, observe excellent hygiene practices and make sure those around us have what they need to get through the crisis. If we do this, we may be able to hold the number of cases down so the healthcare system can catch up.

We also need to remember that this situation will likely last for months to years. The economic collapse partly triggered by the pandemic is causing rates of unemployment never seen before in the United States. Millions of people who lose their jobs are also losing their health insurance. States are being subjected to a scarcity of supplies and price-gouging. So, in addition to the above actions, we need to demand the nationalization of our entire healthcare system from the hospitals to the pharmaceutical corporations to the medical device and supply companies. We need to invest in a strong public health infrastructure from the local to the state to the national level that can swiftly implement a plan to contain an epidemic when it begins. And we need policies that protect everyone from financial insecurity, homelessness, and lack of food.

Every day, I hear people saying that the COVID-19 pandemic is a hoax. We just need to look around to see the fallacy of that assertion. It is clear that countries with a strong social infrastructure have been able to minimize disease, suffering, and death while those with privatized, for-profit infrastructure have fared poorly. Those who deny the pandemic remind me of climate deniers. The impacts are obvious but they continue their destructive habits placing the whole world at risk. Even if you aren’t convinced the pandemic is real, it is prudent to behave as if it is because the risks of not doing so are too great.

  • voza0db

    “The United States Is Where COVID-19 Deaths Are Being Under-reported”

    Reality is probably the exact opposite… COVID-19 deaths are being over-reported simply because we are ONLY TESTING FOR SARS-CoV-2 and for nothing else!

  • voza0db

    Classifying this as a pandemic is a mere bureaucratic action from a corrupted organization.

    In REALITY this (future to be classified as FLU VIRUS) SARS-CoV-2 isn’t much worse or stronger than other viruses that KILL EVERY SINGLE YEAR MILLIONS OF PEOPLE during the flu season.

    So… a tonne of salt is required!

  • voza0db

    The article mentions Italy… Even in Italy the number of deaths is still very below the REGULAR FLU SEASON!

    Just trying to reduce your level of Ignorance!

    August 9. 2019 (Before the COVID-19 Circus!)

    Investigating the impact of influenza on excess mortality in all ages in Italy during recent seasons (2013/14-2016/17 seasons).

    RESULTS: We estimated excess deaths of 7,027, 20,259, 15,801 and 24,981 attributable to influenza epidemics in the 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17, respectively, using the Goldstein index. The average annual mortality excess rate per 100,000 ranged from 11.6 to 41.2 with most of the influenza-associated deaths per year registered among the elderly. However children less than 5 years old also reported a relevant influenza attributable excess death rate in the 2014/15 and 2016/17 seasons (1.05/100,000 and 1.54/100,000 respectively).

    CONCLUSIONS: Over 68,000 deaths were attributable to influenza epidemics in the study period. The observed excess of deaths is not completely unexpected, given the high number of fragile very old subjects living in Italy. In conclusion, the unpredictability of the influenza virus continues to present a major challenge to health professionals and policy makers. Nonetheless, vaccination remains the most effective means for reducing the burden of influenza, and efforts to increase vaccine coverage and the introduction of new vaccine strategies (such as vaccinating healthy children) should be considered to reduce the influenza attributable excess mortality experienced in Italy and in Europe in the last seasons.

    **

    Clearly the conclusion about vaccines is not accurate because Italy vaccinates a high percentage of old subjects and yet they drop like flies!

    source:
    (delete spaces)

    https : / / www . ncbi . nlm . nih . gov /pubmed/31401203

  • “The commonsense approach is to screen everyone for symptoms, test those
    who are likely to be positive and isolate them until the results are in.”

    Dubious, and not least because it relies on stigmatizing people “who are likely to be positive”–how does one determine that, exactly, given that the range of symptoms presented by people exposed to Covid19 falls well within the same range as ifluenza viri and rhino viri infection?–and not common sense but rather conservative.

    At any rate the common sense approach is to make testing universally available to everyone–including people without insurance. If someone tests positive, then they should be subject to a finite, limited quarantine, for which they should be compensated at least for financial hardship they may incur as a result of quarantine. And moreover that testing should be open–people should be able to get tested once a week, and this practice should be encouraged in locations where the outbreak has been severe. Just because I test negative today, doesn’t mean I won’t be exposed tomorrow. How many asymptomatic people will be bypassed by the formula proposed here, only to develop symptoms a short time after, or none at all? If a person goes to get tested, and they are told they don’t need to be because they’re presenting no symptoms, they are likely to leave feeling relieved and healthy–regardless of any accurate information they may get from those administering the tests–when in fact they may already be asymptomatic carriers, or they may develop only the milder symptoms which are presented in the majority of Covid19 exposures and likewise spread the disease to people who are mortally at risk?

    Comprehensive, universal testing–at the national level and/or the state level–is what needs to happen. What this means is that government needs to find the resources–and if necessary commandeer them–to combat these outbreaks. It can be done, but it isn’t likely to be. Unless we the people demand it unrelentingly from our supposed leadership, which, in a democracy, is there to serve us, and not we to follow them. And if we succeed we’ll also have succeeded in getting a shoe in the door to real single payer universal healthcare.

    Talking up the standard Left-wing boilerplate–that we basically need to do away with the entire for-profit healthcare aparatus–is all very well. I agree wholeheartedly, on idealistic and ethical grounds. But we aren’t going to get that from our current Republicrat establishment–certainly not at the national level, where the response has for the most part ranged from rank idiocy to clueless grandstanding. Anything with a whiff of the welfare state about it is simply unthinkable.

    Therefore . . . #Demexit.

    Is the Covid19 “pandemic” a hoax? No. But I put the word pandemic in quotes because it is being used to ramp up fear, and fear unleashed does not lead to prudence but to panic. Somewhere between denial and fear there is a sober and rational road through this.

  • Seems like a reasonable and sensible conclusion to me, about vaccinating healthly children and increasing vaccine coverage generally. Moreover, the very elderly–I read somewhere recently that the median age of Covid19 fatalities in Italy is 80–may simply be too weak to withstand a severe onslaught of infection; vaccination depends upon your own body’s immune system to respond, and the very elderly may have very little immune system left with which to respond, which cannot be boosted or strengthened. With children the situation is obviously different; immune-system boosting treatments can be applied sucessfully, except in the very young.

    You’ve got something against vaccines, maybe?

  • Actually that isn’t true. At least in the state where I live, where testing–which hasn’t been universal as it should be–has been for Covid19 exposure and influenza exposure both.

    However, accompanying the Covid19 outbreaks there has been a tremendous amount of hysteria–misinformed panic as well as misinformed denial–spreading virally through the media, and the first death associated with Covid19 reported here turned out to be of someone who hadn’t been exposed to Covid19 at all whose symptoms and test results had been misread by supposed healthcare professionals.

  • I just scanned the latest extrusion from Right-wing Dembot Cody Fenwick over at AlterNet/AlterNothing, in which the TDS-afflicted Fenwick ramps up the xenophobia about China, where the initially catastrophic outbreak of Covid19 has been largely contained, declaring that Trump “let himself get played by China over the corona virus.”

    Fenwick quotes a Tweet from the Tweeter-in-Chief:

    “Just finished a very good conversation with President Xi of China.
    Discussed in great detail the CoronaVirus that is ravaging large parts
    of our Planet. China has been through much & has developed a strong
    understanding of the Virus. We are working closely together. Much
    respect!”

    I suggest we let Trump get “played” by Xi on this one. It might actually do us all some good.

    Liberals, progressives, socialists of any stripe–my fellow Lefties: The Democratic Party is not your friend.

  • Edward Winslow

    For at least the past 50 years, policymakers in the US always blame everyone else for the very same nefarious actions that the evil empire engages. Accusing China of lying about its Corona virus statistics is just one case in point.

  • mwildfire

    This has become standard practice in recent years–accusing countries designated as “enemies” of whatever the US deep state is doing.

  • Nicarag

    Diet plays a huge role. Processed foods etc, are making peoples immune system weaker. Countries, like the UK, Ireland, and the USA where obesity from their sugary diets see them out perform other countries with healthy diets. In Asian countries, before work, they generally preform exercises keeping them healthier!
    Coronavirus, has been around for millennia! Viruses attack the weak..its natural selection!

  • Blaine

    The seasonal flu vaccine is almost entirely ineffective for the elderly and a little better on the young. It works best for the people who need it the least. Serial use of the seasonal flu vaccine decreases its effectiveness and compromises natural immunity vs other upper respiratory infections. The best use of it seems to be not at all until one is approaching their most weakened years, when it will do the most good.

    I have to wonder of the seasonal vaccine left some elderly predisposed to covid infection, but those stats will never be known.

  • voza0db

    So… THE ONLY THING you read was the part about the vaccine?

    Vaccines per se are just like any other man made drug. Most of the time pass unnoticed even if causing serious side effects or deaths. Just like the FLU SEASON AND PNEUMONIA!

    But this is not the point. THE POINT is that in Italy, DESPITE a large flu vaccination coverage of “fragile very old subjects living in Italy” in recent years that doesn’t seem to be working very well, that is why SOME FOLKS decided to write a PAPER ABOUT IT!

    I prefer the Natural Herd Immunity (like we have ALL years during flu season) because it is more efficient and lasts longer. But if people enjoy taking vaccines, i really don’t care.

  • voza0db

    “influenza exposure” only for IAV and IBV, or more?

    And what are the results? Any site with data available?

  • kevinzeese

    There is a lot of variance across the country, which is one reason it will be difficult to stop the virus in the US — failure of national leadership.

    What state are you in?

  • voza0db

    Kevin… What do you think it would happen if you ordered a nation wide test for IAV, IBV, CoV, PIV1/2/3/4?!

    A taste (just for IAV and IBV)!
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2f7677ef36f93bb02d96aaf25a4d8cc8a6a88f9fa9c5952245795633e2ec288e.jpg

  • voza0db

    Now my 2nd attempt is “Pending” censorship clearence!

    3rd attempt… without image!

    That’s also a very well known biological effect of artificial infection.
    The other viruses and bacteria find an easy path to make their charm, mainly due to an overstressed immune system.The current situation of SARS-CoV-2 infections and deaths in Italy, Portugal and Spain are ALL the same.In Portugal 96% of the dead are age60+, with most of them on the 80+.

  • voza0db

    There is only a GOOD way to stop novel weak viruses (like SARS-CoV-2 and others):

    Protect the elderly and weak people (independent of age) and let the rest of the Herd (ages from 5 to 65) achieve Natural Herd Immunity.

    4 to 5 weeks are the time needed to achieve such biological effect.

  • Blaine

    A big part of it (maybe) is the pathway that is taken, and then even the inactivated flu vaccines don’t work very well, the subunit ones even worse. Health Canada concluded if you cleared the flu naturally 3 times in your life you had better or comparable natural immunity than the vaccine in its best years, against all common circulating strains. Also, the seasonal flu vaccine actually increases viral shedding through aerosolization in exhale, no cough or sneeze needed, compared to unvaccinated. Like I said, there will never be stats associated with flu vacc status and covid infection but would be nice to see them.

    Some vaccines (live measles) are incredibly effective and actually seem to decrease all cause mortality (a common side effect of measles infection is loss of previously acquired natural immunity vs a wide variety of infectious organisms). I’m not anti-vacc, just not willing to embrace medical intervention where it will be ineffective.

  • Hawai’i. In terms of Covid19 outbreak, one of the least hard-hit locations. Our ex-governor, Neil Abercrombie, a lifelong progressive, has called for universal testing. Our present governor, David Ige, a conservative, establishment Democrat who primaried Abercrombie out of office after a single term six years ago, has relied primarily upon “social distancing” proclamations and travel restrictions. The amount of testing has increased, but it has been sporadic at best.

  • voza0db

    The sole purpose of artificial infection is to reduce death rates, not to prevent natural infection!

    That’s why in fully measles vaccinated areas we still have measles outbreaks.

  • Blaine

    TBF that is usually because supplier has shifted to easier to handle or cheaper variations of vaccine that do not provide longest lasting protection, and there is always a % of population that doesn’t respond to a particular vaccine.

    Agreed one will still get an infection, but idea is to rapidly overwhelm infection and NOT become symptomatic, thereby limiting spread.

  • Howard

    This is the result of a for-profit money system that insists on a for-profit healthcare system. It is a system of greed exploiting workers who care. Change the money, change society. The problem is at the top of the economic beanstalk, time to chop it down, Jack.

  • voza0db

    Indeed that’s real. Measles vaccine immunity is very short compared to natural immunity.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8401567a8a3cbb5af775e6c2800d0b8f13245ce6c542efeee0aba6c6ba0c4d7d.jpg

    It seems that what you refer is just the way they found to generate yearly sales of vaccines!

  • Howard

    I think fear would drive people to want to be tested each week, which I agree is what we should be doing. Yes, make testing universally available to everyone–including people without insurance. Fear is natural when life is threatened, but then normally drives quick action to avoid the threat to life. Stewing in fear while taking no action is stressful and not healthy. I think most people just do what they can and realize that looping out in fear is not good for anyone. The leadership should be spanked with a plank until they can’t sit down for scapegoating China. Then vote them all out of office.

  • Blaine

    Again, TBF it comes down to $ and ability to transport/store. The oral polio vaccine isn’t favored in poorer parts of the globe because it works better.

    The live measels vaccine is far superior to the subunit adjuvant ones, and despite a recommendation within the vaccine community to avoid adjuvants where possible, they make for a cheaper, easier to transport vaccine.

    The mainstream move to delegitimize ALL criticism of ALL vaccines is unprecedented really, and clouds the issue when things like measels outbreaks in vaccinated communities occur. Not all vaccines are the same, look into the Cutter incident, Denvaxia, or Nigerian polio fiasco to see how it can go wrong.

  • voza0db
  • Nylene13

    Is there any worthwhile News and Comment site discussing Bernie’s quitting yet?

    I can’t find anything.

  • k.j.noh

    Complete RT-PCR Testing is costly (the machines are expensive), time-consuming, and poses infection risks for medical workers that have to be managed.
    Universal screening is much easier, and because it’s ubiquitous, doesn’t have to stigmatize at all. It can involve, among other things, a simple questionnaire, and/or fever checks with infrared thermometers. (The Chinese and Koreans used thermometers around entrances to public buildings and public spaces). This may catch up to 50-80% of the infected early. If temperature is positive, then this can be followed by eliminating other causes that may be implicated, through other tests (culture tests, blood tests, etc). This can then can be followed up with a rapid CT scan (using a portable CT scanner), looking for the characteristic “ground glass” pattern of Covid-19. If this is positive, then administer RT-PCR assays, and quarantine until results are obtained. If positive quarantine; if symptomatic, isolate treat supportively while monitoring for shock (cytokine shock), hypoxemia (prepare oxygen and ventilators), infection, or reinfection. Give good nutrition, balance pH & intestinal flora; use alternative (TCM) medicine as a support. Give the absolute best care to everyone, regardless of age and co-morbidity. These measures are not difficult to apply. The Chinese have shown that this tiered, targeted process can be applied intelligently and efficiently, that it works, and they have published and given extensive documentation on the specifics. Combine that with good contact tracing, social distancing, and good logistical support of quarantined or isolated individuals, and universal medical coverage, and you can curb the outbreak considerably, if not definitively. The issue is values, priorities, and political will.

  • The Oligarchy has its INVERTED TOTALITARIAN happy talk propaganda arms running on all cylinders. We-the-people are being sacrificed in this pandemic for fascist PROFITS. 🥵

  • bonnielou

    Actually, Covid19 deaths may be over-reported rather than under-reported., One reason why deaths appeared so high in Italy is that all the people who died in hospitals with the coronavirus were recorded as dying of the coronavirus. On re-evaluation “only 12 per cent have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,”
    This means that the Italian death toll figures could have been artificially inflated by up to 88%. The same is true of the US. Patients with heart disease, cancer, etc who would soon have died of their disease but also happened to have covid19 are ordered to be officially listed on death certificates as Covid19, even if no tests have been done and coronavirus is only suspected.
    It means thousands of deaths currently widely attributed to Covid19, and being used to justify the introduction of measures equating to medical martial law, may not have died of covid19 at all, but of their serious chronic co-morbidity (cancer, heart disease etc.).

  • Southern

    Much respect and then they bribe Chinese officials to divert a planeload that was prepaid with medical supplies for France right off the tarmac.

  • I agree. It isn’t going to happen. Trump just won the 2020 Presidential election, unless things play out in some drastically unexpected fashion.

    In These Times–on Disqus–an interesting piece up responding to Sanders’ suspending his campaign. It isn’t a plea for any bs “unity” with the Dem Party establishment, but it is also not nearly as militant as I think it should be. The article is titled “Bernie Sanders Started the Revolution. The Rest is Up to Us.”

    Sites like AlterNet-AlterNothing and Raw Story-Raw Sewage, both on Disqus, are posting articles on Sanders’ campaign suspension–and of course the patronizing, unctuous posturing, and the snide, triumphal preening, has gone into full swing from liberal-progressive Conservocrat partisans high and low, desperate to save their sses because they know full well that while they may have just “won” the Dem primaries for their favorite fascist/neoliberal Joe Biden, they’ve also almost certainly–barring some miraculous turn of events–won the general election for Donald Trump. I don’t read the articles at either site anymore–they are both owned by the same wealthy Right-wing Dem player, and festooned with utterly ineffectual TDS-afflicted, DNC-Conservocrat partisan blather–a great blowing of partisan raspberries–and I don’t post comments there myself because I have been banned or shadow banned from doing so because I have spoken what I think is the truth, and while I don’t resort to insults and name-calling–a common occurance there, especially at Raw Story-Raw Sewage–I’ve been blunt about it. Dissent from the Democratic Party establishment line is not tolerated, and comments severely critical of that party line are quickly censored at AlterNothing/Raw Sewage, even though aggressive trolling and attacks upon apparent Lefties by zealous Conservocrats are commonplace and only occassionally removed by a “moderator.” Censor, rather–trouble is, you can’t censor the real world, can you?

    So anyway I don’t recommend either of those sites to anyone for anything anymore.

    The Democratic Socialists of America are still affiliated with the Democratic Party. And I for one am absolutely done with that institution whose primary purpose has become the obliteration of progress, the marginalization, trivialization and total disempowerment of actual liberals and progressives, the dismantling of even what little remains of the New Deal–in short the obliteration of the Left. I do not believe in their flim-flam wizardry of market-based solutions and empty “identity politics” posturing without social progress.

    So for now I am looking to the Green Party and Howie Hawkins, even though I have some reservations about Hawkins. If I am presented with no choice but to “waste my vote,” I am not going to waste it on segregationist Status Quo Joe Biden, not even if Sanders agrees to be Biden’s VP running-mate–which would be a stupid thing to do and a terrible waste. And yeah I’m bummed about Bernie’s decision to suspend his campaign too, but I think we kinda saw it coming, didn’t we?

    We need to bring together a coalition of the Left, free of the ball-and-chain of the Democratic Party. We need imaginative and practical strategies to get past ideological dogma as well as the corporate “mainstream” media and the games Republicrats run to keep third-party and indie candidates off of election tickets.

    Four decades of neoliberalism is quite enough, thank you.

    Anyhow, those are my thoughts for now. I hope you are well and keeping sane in this bad science fiction movie we’re passing through right now.

  • Yeah figures. And it looks like we’ll have dirty rotten scoundrels in charge for the next few years regardless.

    One thought though that occurs to me is that Trump has tried to live up to his own bs on occassion, sometimes successfully–in terms of personal aggrandizement. It might be a productive strategy to hammer him with stuff like this and play up to his ego.

    I do realize that that’s a long shot, mind you. He’s surrounded by ideological xenophobes in his administration and in the Republican machine in general. And what drives the recidivist Democratic Party leadership and their zealous loyalists is no different–witness Fenwick. I want Trump talking to Putin. I want Trump talking to Xi. I want Trump talking to every leader, of whatever stripe. And I don’t care if he gets to build a Trump Tower in Moscow or Beijing–if he comes out of a conference with Xi with a deal to build a vacation resort in Beijing and a sane, comprehensive, workable strategy to deal with the Covid19 outbreaks in the U. S. based on China’s successful handling of the crisis, then that would be a Good Thing.

  • Southern

    Trump ought to be stripped of his assets for conflict of interests which is mixing his Presidency with his personal business empire.

    The recent bailout plays into the hand of the people whom he was/is indebted to.

    Trump was indebted to the Deutse bank – Blackrock are the second largest shareholder in that [and Goldman Sachs plus a whole lot more] and they have just bought up all US government’s bonds for the Wall $treet bailout – suspicious how no one else was allowed in on that.

    Here is a 3 hour podcast with more – I know its long but it’s definitely worth it but hey taste may differ.

    Since links trigger really long delays – look for this site The Right Stuff biz – FTN 300: I Am the Line Thy God. [It’s just the title its not religious]

  • voza0db

    It seems that Kevin and Margaret and others are engaged in marking all comments that have pictures with valid information as s p a m and/or simply deleting them…

    I guess they want americans to remain dumb, or just listen to what they have to say!

  • voza0db

    I’ve made a picture early on… date of the pic 19 ‎April, ‎2019

    Enjoy! (before this comment is deleted)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aca349725e0c76cea9b58af22e59dd574e906172a4e69055a858608854ecedc6.jpg

  • Margaret Flowers

    People may have co-morbidity but they still died from COVID19. Someone with cancer who becomes infected with the coronavirus certainly would die at some point but it was likely COVID19 that caused them to die at that time. Just as people with other illnesses that make them more vulnerable like hypertension or lung disease are more vulnerable to dying if they contract COVID19, we wouldn’t say they died just from hypertension or lung disease but that COVID19 was the acute cause of death. So, that report is misleading. We also know that previously healthy people, including relatively young people, are dying from COVID19.

  • voza0db

    1st comment deleted! Very usual since StV-20 started to infect umans!

    I’ve made a picture early on… date of the pic 19 ‎April, ‎2019

    Enjoy! (before this comment is deleted)

    (delete spaces)
    https : / / uploads . disquscdn . com /images/aca349725e0c76cea9b58af22e59dd574e906172a4e69055a858608854ecedc6.jpg

  • voza0db

    Anything but DNC&GOP LLC! If you still think voting is going to change anything!

  • Nylene13

    I am just sad at this point.

    No one worth voting for, and no write in’s allowed here in Nevada.

    Trump or Biden is no choice at all.

    No wonder most Americans don’t bother to vote.

    Maybe no one voting is the best vote we can do.

  • Nylene13

    I have not read/heard that relatively young previously healthy people are dying from the C. Virus. Do you have links?
    Thanks.

  • kevinzeese

    Initial reports emphasized that people with other illnesses were at greater risk. Of course, that is always true. But, there have been many reports that healthy people and young people are also at risk. If you search the Internet you will find lots of stories. Here are a handful, but there are many more:

    https://www.ibtimes.com/coronavirus-updates-who-warns-covid-19-killing-more-more-young-people-2952539

    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/xgq9m7/how-worried-young-people-dying-coronavirus

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article241823536.html

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-are-young-and-healthy-people-dying-from-coronavirus_n_5e8f28efc5b6b371812d0768

  • Nylene13

    Thanks.

    Right now the TV News is saying that it is PRIMARILY older people with underlying health issues who are dying.

    They said that normally in NYC 150 people a day die, now it is 500 or so people a day.

  • Margaret Flowers

    I have been hearing from health professionals and seeing anecdotal cases in the news. Here is a Post article from today on it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/08/young-people-coronavirus-deaths/

  • Nylene13

    That link would not open unless you are a subscriber.

    Anyway-

    To prevent getting sick I think that it is important to stress NUTRITION- of which I have seen few articles about.

    My advice-

    Drink LOTS of OJ and eat oranges and apples, hot herbal tea and homemade veggie Crockpot soup.

    Chop up onions, garlic and cabbage, carrots and a can of good tomato soup (Trader Joe’s Red Bell Pepper Tomato soup is good,) or tomato paste, add water and put in crock and cook on high 4 -6 hours till bubbly.

    Eat with toasted garlic bread. Lots of garlic.

    And take lots of Vit C. Get a Big bottle of the chew-able kind.

  • Our first report of a Covid19 fatality in Hawai’i turned out not to be a case of Covid19 infection at all. Their test results and their symptoms were misread by clincians influenced by the press of panic.The person who died was likely not provided with the treatment they required, which might have saved their life. Not likely to be a common occurance, but common enough to throw some numbers being reported into question; and a human life is a human life.

    Your position on this is way outside of the consensus of the community of medical professionals internationally, and you are the first MD whom I’ve encountered who’s taken it; and you appear determined to stick to it. Your take on co-morbidity is also incomplete in that you fail to assess the possibility–let alone the probability–that without the serious underlying issue a person may have recovered from any Covid19 infection.

    Fear works both ways with something like this. Panic–and there is a ton of that going around–breeds hysteria as well as denial. I suspect that there is a measure of latent TDS underlying your view; but just because Trump and a great many goof-balls on the Right advocate for something dangerously idiotic does not mean we should all blindly run full-throttle in the opposite direction and right off of a cliff of our own.

    Thinking in an apocalyptic frame of mind, it reminds me in a way of the claims that used to be made–emanating primarily from well-intentioned people on the Left–totally off-the-scale about an all-out nuclear war wiping out all life on earth, back in the 1980s. That was never even a possibility, and it still isn’t. We don’t really have that much destructive power at our disposal. Wiping out human civilization was always a possibility, with perhaps the human race wiping itself out as a consequence, yes; but all life on the planet, no.

    “Don’t Panic!”–The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

  • I am sure there are quite a few more. But for every one of those, there are a thousand which say that the opposite is the case–and from credible sources, people in the field and on the front lines, and people with qualified expertise, not from “mainstream” or “independant” media pundits.

  • Margaret Flowers

    We’ll have to disagree. The infection is the acute cause of death. Using your logic, all people with co-morbidities such as asthma, diabetes, heart disease, etc who have COVID-19 would not be considered dying of that? That thinking is outside the mainstream. I spoke with a New York doctor who believes if we had more tests, we would attribute more deaths to COVID-19. Now, if someone was positive with COVID-19 and they walked down the street and were hit by a truck, then that death would be trauma not COVID-19. But people who have the disease and who are dying at home or in the hospital are dying of COVID-19.

  • CALynnie

    I don’t think this is a hoax. But I definitely believe we are being lied to. The media mania is unbelievable.
    I believe the numbers are over reported. My questions would be:

    (1) how many who test positive for the virus received the flu shot? The flu shot contains Mercury. A study done by the DOD on it’s employees a year ago or so found tremendous correlation between flu shot and the body’s ability to fight off another respiratory illness. (2) how many patients are living in poverty? Over the last decade in NY, while building residences for Billionaires (second homes,) many NYers were displaced and forced to move into substandard living conditions. Couple that with high cost of health care, day care, student loan debt (which someone living on the edge will never get out of,) rodents, cockroaches, peeling paint, stress, fast food, etc. I worked in Queens – one of the hardest hit areas. The community’s poverty level is off the charts. Asthma, diabetes, chronic illnesses off the charts….and most are not treated at all.

    Building up one’s immunity, it seems to me. is the most important aspect of fighting this CV-19.
    Sunshine, nutrients, a healthy diet, etc.

    We had a friend who was ill, late 60s. Had numerous medical issues. He became sick and was hospitalized a week ago (IMHO going to the hospital is the LAST place I’d want to be…especially in America,) and he died. But we honestly don’t know if it was CV-19. We have no answers for his death. But, his death, once he entered the hospital, was predictable.

    Doesn’t the Orwellian-named CARES Act bestow on already financially-health hospitals $100 Billion for CV-19 cases? Why would any hospital not report a death as CV-19….there’s money there.
    We live under such a lying, sack of shit system that doesn’t care about our health.

    And trying to sort thru all the bullshit is enormous…as you both well know.

  • Nylene13

    I agree. A Healthy Diet is very important and pretty much ignored here in the USA.
    Orange Juice and Veggie Soups with Lots of Garlic and Onions!

  • tomonthebay

    Health advice from you? How cute.

  • I am not actually disagreeing with your point about co-morbidity. I said that it was incomplete, not wrong. Obviously Covid19 infection can be the straw that kills, so to speak.

    What I disagree with is the implication–or more than implication–in what you are saying that young, healthy people, without underlying “issues” of any sort, exposed to Covid19 are at serious, dire personal risk and are likely to start dropping like flies. That is not what even the WHO is saying, let alone the general consensus of healthcare professionals, nor is it something I’ve heard from doctors I’ve spoken with. The evidence points pretty strongly in the opposite direction.

    Young, healthy people who’ve been exposed to Covid19, who may be completely asymptomatic or nearly asymptomatic, pose a risk to other people–they may spread the virus generally and more directly put people who are at high risk in peril. That’s a serious matter, and self-preservation inspired by fear does not yield responsible behavior in anyone.

    Just as an example–the proliferation of the use of nitrile gloves by people in the general public is totally pointless and in some situations actually very dangerous. Wearing them may give the wearer a sense of being protected, when in fact it provides no protection whatsoever from Covid19 infection and may actually help to spread the virus as well as any number of other nasty germs. This is particularly so when it comes to cashiers, and a day hasn’t gone by in the last week when I haven’t seen a cashier sporting these now fashionable hand-condoms, sometimes with fingertips literally turning brown from extended use. Even if a cashier doesn’t handle purchased items, they are still unavoidably going to handle money. And as my mother used to admonish me when I was very young–“Don’t put that in your mouth–it’s filthy!” She was right, I think.

    Which brings me to the issue of testing–which I think needs to be universal, available-on-demand as a precautionary measure–once every seven days, perhaps–and paid for by our own government for anyone who does not have insurance–likewise with any necessary medical treatment. Catching people who are asymptomatic early is vital if we are to track and contain the outbreaks, and to help people who are at serious risk of becoming gravely ill.

    Just from a personal standpoint–I’ve tried twice so far to get tested at one of the “mobile” testing facilities which have been popping up randomly here in Honolulu and adjacent areas of Oahu, and both times have been turned away because I am not presenting any symptoms, even after–the second time–explaining that I am a smoker of tobacco, suffer as a consequence from “post nasal drip,” and have a long history of respiratory problems–pneumonia when I was a toddler, severe attacks of asthma throughout my childhood until my adolesence, and that I am prone to infections–or multiple infections–that start in my sinuses and migrate downward and lungward. I’ve come down with bad bouts of bronchitus in the past, though not in recent years, and I almost annually suffer from a weeklong or sometimes two-weeklong severe sore throat. I am also older–though not in the highest risk group over sixty. I’ll have to seek out some other route to getting myself tested, since I can’t seem to get tested to save my own life–let alone the lives of others–at one of these emergency facilities.

  • IconoclastTwo

    I’ve been thinking about this. If you want to break out of the issues of the parties and the mainstream media, then why not run directly on something that they’d consider totally incompatible with the way they do things now-namely:

    1) A transitional program to deal, immediately, with what we need now. Namely whatever nationalization is necessary for mass testing, PPE, vaccine/actual therapeutic research and distribution which is how we get out from this (namely a lot), supporting food distribution, universal income supports, debt and payment elimination since debt otherwise is a time bomb/another mechanism to austerity as Jimmy Dore kept on pointing out when I watched him, et cetera.

    2) A constituent assembly to design a new system and ultimately address the underlying fact that no political party is basically going to do what we need and systematically. Even if we got a political party that won out of mass disgust at everything that happened the last four years as just a culmination, they’d still have to work against a stacked reactionary court system, et cetera. This basically isn’t saying anything that Paul Street hasn’t said before.

    If we ask people to support a third party after all of the propaganda against this, a lot of them might say no and be willing to sacrifice themselves again. If we ask people “Is everything broken and do you want an end to this?” they might say yes instead.

  • lcotler

    I’ve heard just the opposite: that deaths are being blamed on COVID when, in actuality, the CAUSE OF DEATH wasn’t COVID at all! Why? In order to bolster fear and give the government “reason” to 1) control and surveil, 2) make money for the donor class.