Above Photo: Activists protesting the University of Sheffield’s ties with arms companies Rolls Royce, BAE Systems and Boeing. Twitter/Sheffield Action Group.
UK peace organization DeMilitarise Education is on an unstoppable mission to steer the power of universities away from the military.
And toward creating a more peaceful world.
This episode of Nonviolence Radio welcomes @hellaJinsella from the UK peace organization, DeMilitarise Education, or dED. Jinsella has been actively working to raise awareness about the ties between higher education and the military. As these relationships have not generally been made public, military funding, and the accompanying environmental degradation the arms industry entails, has been able to thrive within universities without sustained challenge. DeMilitarise Education seeks to bring these connections to light. To this end, it has set up a database which tracks schools’ ties with the military and arms companies to be used as a tool to pressure the universities to break these damaging ties.
Despite the size of this problem (to date, dED has uncovered over £1.3 billion worth of UK university partnerships with the military and defense sector), Jinsella remains motivated and optimistic. She sees dED as a “part of a much larger mission for the reevaluation of education…it’s a part of the decolonization movement. It’s the part of the fossil-free movement. All these things that we want to see shift in our economics are represented within the higher education spaces.”
And Jinsella pushes beyond even the realm of higher education, her hope and conviction that a better, more peaceful and just world is possible has led her to set aside a time each week in which anyone anywhere can join her to:
simply hold the space for us to imagine peace together. Imagine world peace. Imagine what that means for our economies and care-based systems. And we meditate and actually make space for our minds to start prioritizing peace as the universal principle that we can all stand behind.
Stephanie: Welcome to another episode of Nonviolence Radio. I’m your host Stephanie Van Hook and I’m here with my co-host and news anchor of the Nonviolence Report, Michael Nagler. We’re from the Metta Center for Nonviolence in Petaluma, Ca.
On today’s episode I speak with activist, organizer, and peace visionary “@hellaJinsella” from the UK peace organization, DeMilitarise Education, or dED about a world where universities are no longer working with or for the military, and what we can do to make this a reality.
Jinsella: What’s up? I’m Miss @hellaJinsella, and I am on an unstoppable mission to make sure that the power of education is used in favor of peace and not war, as we see today.
I am the co-founder and executive director of Demilitarise Education, which is a community and guide for modern-day peacemakers, working to break the ties between UK universities and the military and defense sector.
Stephanie: How did you get into the work that you’re doing? What’s going on?
Jinsella: Yeah. So, it was a pretty wild ride for me because I was studying fashion marketing. And it was in my year in the industry when I was working in London that I found out that London hosts one of the world’s biggest arm’s fairs.
And I was shocked. I was like, “What? We’re selling weapons out of London?” I had absolutely no idea. So, I went to this protest and watched while the police pulled grandmas out of the road and arrested them for simply sitting in the road. Also, that they could enable weapons of war to be brought into the ExCeL Center.
And that year, the UK licensed exports from the arm’s sale to over 18 of their own Human Rights Watch list. That means countries that they’re putting warning flags on saying that they’re oppressing their own citizens. Yet, we were very, very willing, while we have the red flags up about them, we’re also willing to profit from that oppression by selling them weapons.
So, I spoke to a lot of people at this protest and was really just shocked. And I decided that I needed to raise a little bit of awareness about it because, you know, I honestly had no idea. And this really opened my eyes to the level of corruption in the UK.
And I went back to university and thought, I’ll set up a small society, raise some awareness. And it was during the process of setting that up that I ended up speaking to the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions of Israel Campaign.
And what they taught me was that our universities are also partnering with weapons companies. In freaky ways, which I can explain later.
And I was like, ‘Yo, I wanted to use this space to prevent this.’ And suddenly this space which I’m trying to use to prevent arms sales is actually involved in the development and platforming and profit of the very arms companies themselves.
So, from then, we started campaigning and by the end of the year, realized that it’s really, really difficult for students to maintain momentum on these campaigns. And actually, “demilitarize education” campaigns have been happening for decades.
But when students graduate, all of that information and the campaign success, research, the conversations that they have had, all gets lost. And the next generation of students come in and are starting from ground zero once again.
So, we experienced first-hand the need for there to be a central organization that can hold the data and can connect the national campus campaigns.
And that was the birth of Demilitarise Education. A few years on, we now host the world’s first university and arms database. And we have worked with students, teaching them research skills, which has led to us, so far, uncovering over £1.3 billion worth of UK university partnerships with the military and defense sector.
And what we’re now doing is working to see the adoption of the Demilitarise Education Treaty, which is a comprehensive guide for divestment from the arms trade and a reinvestment in peaceful companies.
Stephanie: So, it seems very normalized that there would be a relationship between weapons production, research, and so forth, at universities because we’re not societies that have rejected militarism either, right?
So, for some people, I imagine they’re like what are you doing? Why are you against this? Can you talk about some of the reactions that people have – reasons why they feel that this is an okay kind of partnership with the universities?
Jinsella: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, we do get a lot of that. People saying we now need more than ever to be using our educational spaces to advance our militaries.
But largely, I find that these kinds of comments are tied to political narratives. For example, the war in Ukraine and Russia right now is a prime example of a polarizing conversation, which has made people even more military-minded.
And therefore, even more protective of the advancement of our militaries. And of course, that means they then want our militaries to stay in our education.
However, I’m very quick to tell them that, you know, do they want strong militaries or do they want democracy? Because right now, our militaries are actually weakening our democracies because they largely go unaccountable.
And this is within the university space as well. Democracies rely on accountability. They rely on public scrutiny to be able to look at where public funds are being spent and whether it is what the people actually want.
And the military complex today is making it very, very difficult for the adequate level of scrutiny to be made. And therefore, disenabling, like a just democratic society.
Also, it’s kind of weird. One of my mentors always says – he’s like, “Forget it. You don’t even need to say all of that. Like arms companies will be arms companies, right? They’re profiting anyway. Why do they have to do it within our education space?”
It seems like a complete contradiction to the need for militaries anyway, right? I think people forget that the reason we have armies and militaries in the first place is to create peace. And they’re like, “Oh my God. Wait. Wait. Sorry, I didn’t realize peace was involved here.”
When you’re thinking about it in that terms and thinking about, okay, so we have this tool called the military. They’re supposed to be an upkeeper of peace. Yet, we’re spending more time promoting and advancing violent military tactics in universities. Then actually going straight to the mission at hand, which is finding and using our educational space, resources, minds, technology, research, to go directly to the objective, which is peace.
Stephanie: Yeah. And that’s my other question, is then how have students responded when you’ve done outreach and campaigned at the universities? How have they responded to your goals?
Jinsella: Well, there’s a big mix. And you should know right now that UK students are under serious stress. There’s a cost of living crisis and there is a real failure of safe living environments, mental health support. Obviously, with the pandemic as well, there was – there’s a real issue right now due to the rapid marketization of our education. Which has led to this kind of – instead of it being an exchange of knowledge through higher education, it’s suddenly an exchange of – like more of a commercial exchange.
You know, the student is the customer and the institution is the business. And that has created a huge amount of space for a lack of care. And therefore, instead of higher education being home of critical thought and ideas and innovation, now they are places where students are investing, hoping to make a return on that investment through the future labor market.
So, they’re going to university to get a well-paid job. And that really kind of closes the mind. It closes the capacity of human intelligence and focuses it into industries that have money.
So, you know, you might be an amazing peace activist at heart, but you’re paying £40,000 to get an education, and who’s going to be able to employ you at the end? And who’s going to be able to pay you more? An arms company or a peace NGO?
Stephanie: [Laughs]
Jinsella: Right?
Stephanie: Right.
Jinsella: So, suddenly, there’s this like manipulation of the critical thought that should be happening within these spaces. So, when we’re talking to students, most of them get it. Most of them are disheartened by the whole higher education space, how much it’s putting them into debt, and how little they feel valued by the institution.
But they completely understand it. They support it. We work with many, many students. However, you know, we had one vote. We had one of our members run a count – tried to get a student union motion passed for supporting demilitarizing education.
And there were about 70 STEM students that turned up to counter that vote. So, it did not get passed, of course. This is of a great concern for us. And we really want to, and are trying to, connect with STEM students as much as possible.
And we’re actually conducting a mass research project right now specifically focused around STEM students as the student type that is most benefiting from the military relationship with higher education.
Although this research isn’t out yet, we’ve had one exciting find from it, which is, although they are willing to take jobs with arms companies, they would prefer jobs that are more aligned with their own ethics.
So, that is what we should be aiming for. Like, of course, STEM students aren’t trying to shoot themselves in the foot in an investment term, right? Like they’re not trying to pay all this money to be an aerospace engineer and then there not be any aerospace jobs, right?
But at the same time, they would prefer it if they could use their own skills to better the world. And that’s really the whole philosophy of Demilitarise Education. It’s divestment for reinvestment.
And we believe there is a huge economic benefit from peace and the diminishing of war, on many levels. And we can go further into that if you want. But I think we all understand that. It’s just for us now to actually imagine what we want. Work with people to imagine the ideal job for an aerospace engineer and then help bring those kinds of organizations, researchers, and that more ethically based technological thinking into the higher education space, so it’s a win/win for all.
Stephanie: Yeah. That is one of the reasons why I studied peace as my master’s degree. I did conflict resolution. And I knew that I wasn’t necessarily preparing for any job that already existed. And on the other hand, I knew that those skills I could bring with me into anything that I would do later, that it would help me be a better person. And that was what I felt was the point of education.
But it seems to me, too, that that must be a difficult part of the work that you’re doing is, in a way, you have to reimagine what the educational system is actually set up to do, in reality. Versus, you know, a utopian education, in a way. Can you speak to that?
Jinsella: Absolutely. Yeah. What we’re doing right now, I want to make very clear to your audience, is we have a database. And we are tracking not only every transaction that has happened between universities and arms companies, but also any student actions that are happening on campus to prevent those partnerships.
We are a dataset, right? Which is now able to be used by students across the country, and world, for their campaigning, and to put pressure on the university space to shift their ways.
This is a part of a much larger mission for the reevaluation of education. You know, it’s a part of the decolonization movement. It’s the part of the fossil free movement. All these things that we want to see shift in our economics are represented within the higher education spaces.
I like to think of it as a little microverse, you know? If we can shift the higher education institution, it’s a model for how we can shift our actual economics.
Let’s just be like flatline with it. We should not be paying for education. I know, for a fact, that our universities are not doing enough, and they do have power which they are underutilizing to make a difference in our world, and to do the right thing, you know, for people and planet.
They’re completely failing as leaders in that respect. However, it is also government policy. It is government policy which has pushed the university into being such a marketized environment. They see it as a political win to be filling our university spaces with arms companies so as to advance their militaries.
And let’s be clear. The modern-day British military model is modern-day imperialism. Our defense strategy is called, “Global Britain.” You know, that doesn’t sound very defensive. It sounds very aggressive.
And we’re using our militaries to maintain influence around the world. And that’s really important to understand. And therefore, we know that this shift won’t happen without government support, too. Because, you know, I once actually asked the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Manchester, you know, “At what point will we put human life in other countries before our commercial interests?”
And she replied saying, “Well – well, our government does it, why wouldn’t we?”
Stephanie: Right. Yeah. And I’m jumping around on your website. It’s full of information and, you know, definitions. There’s how you can get involved in discussions, talks.
Can you talk about the funds that were uncovered, partnerships uncovered, FOIs submitted? What does FOI mean?
Jinsella: FOI means Freedom of Information Act. And it’s one of our key research tools. The Freedom of Information Act is a law which means that the British public are entitled to information coming, and held by, public bodies.
So, each university in our country has an FOI desk. And we then send emails to that FOI desk saying, “Hello, we would like to receive any information you have on partnerships with BAE Systems.” And they will, by law, have to respond within 21 days.
Stephanie: Lovely. Unfortunately, it says there have been zero universities demilitarized, yet. I think even if you get one, it’ll make a model for any other university that would like to go that route. How are you going to move closer to that goal, and are there any examples anywhere else in the world that you draw support or sustenance from?
Jinsella: Yes. So, first of all, we have a model strategy plan, right? And it starts with research. So, our current goal for this year is to gain research on every university in the UK. And gain a consistent amount of data so that we can actually compare them and, you know, better understand the changing environments of these partnerships per university campus. Because, you know, each campus is almost incomparable, really, by how it’s run and its objectives and so on.
So, we need a consistent dataset. And at that point, we will then start pushing for treaty signatures. And it is only with treaty signatures can we assure that they have demilitarized to our standard.
The examples – you know, even Glasgow recently made a statement about putting in some improved policy to prevent armament. You know, there are these partial policy wins, which we see. However, it’s not taken as far as we would like it to.
So, to our standard, although some universities are doing some stuff, to our standard in the UK, none of them have fully demilitarized education. And we’re playing the long game. You know, we’re not trying to get small policy wins. We want full divestment, full policy change.
Now, I was speaking to an academic the other day and I can’t remember the campus, but there’s a university in Italy that is trialing a democratic university space. And she was talking about it like it was tied to the need to demilitarize.
So, there is exciting things going on in universities around the world. And the fossil-free movement, they are way ahead of us, right? They have brilliant success. And we’re really following in their footsteps.
Stephanie: Awesome. Can you speak to the connection between the demilitarization of universities for peace and connecting that to environment, climate movement, and how the impact of weapons and militarization on climate disruption?
Jinsella: Absolutely. This is an amazingly interesting conversation from start to finish because the whole arms pipeline is destructive. You know, many of the first – like the kind of uranium, for example, which is essential for building our nuclear weapons, that is mined. And we all know like how destructive mining, especially uranium mining, can be.
Then, of course, you have very intense complicated technology. So, often research development can happen over ten years, okay? So, that just gives you an idea of how much energy, how much time, how much resources is going into one weapon system.
Then you have the transportation of those weapons, which are huge, heavy and so on. Then, you have the use. Now, the use – not only – like in action, is deadly, destructive, can leave chemicals, debris, and so on. And of course, war zones are famously not very well cleaned up.
But also, you know, these weapons contribute to the destruction of pipelines, sewages, houses, all these other things which cause a horrible environmental impact.
In 2020, the UK’s arms company and military produced more carbon emissions than 60 individual countries. That was just another kind of token of like how – you know, we’ve just spoken about the whole military pipeline, the arms pipeline, and then looking at it kind of from just the British standpoint, how big those emissions really are. And that’s just the UK.
Obviously, the US, you guys have what, 800 military bases around the world? So, if our carbon emissions were more than 60 individual countries, like yours is way up there.
Stephanie: Oh yeah.
Jinsella: Now, the other really important thing to consider when looking at the intersection between the climate movement and the disarmament movement, is the fact that, because of how wealthy and how closely our arms companies are tied to our governments, these are the same companies that are getting many of the contracts to produce green technologies.
And this is really, really worrying for us. Because suddenly, the sector which is so much the problem, is suddenly been given the opportunity to become the hero. And this is really a greenwash issue, which we should be paying very close attention to.
Of course, we want green technologies, and we want them fast. And some arms companies may be well-placed to do that. However, that comes with a lot, a lot of concern around the power we are giving these arms companies. The accountability that should be held against them for their previous crimes against people and planet, and yeah, also the fact that it gives them greater opportunity to monopolize on wealth.
We call it the revolving door, which represents the way that the directors of these arms companies move between our governments. And they make each other very, very rich. So, it’s a real issue surrounding concentrated power.
So, I just caution everyone that sees – I’m just laughing a second because BAE Systems actually commissioned research on a green bomb a few years back.
Stephanie: How does that work? What is – how – what?
Jinsella: I know. I know. It actually didn’t go through because they found it wouldn’t be very efficient. But what we – what are you talking about? Why are you trying to create green bombs when you could just be looking at the root cause of conflict?
You know, the global military spending is up in the trillions. And Jeffrey Sachs, the economist, said that, “We could solve world poverty with a 170 million pounds annually.” It’s a gross failure of the distribution of public wealth and resources that we must scrutinize to the bone and transform.
Stephanie: Absolutely.
So, say that I want to get involved. I come across you on my campus one day, or how would I end up finding you, and then how would you lead me into the greater strategy as a potential ally/activist? Say I’m a student.
Jinsella: Well, there’s so many ways – I’m like, yes. I’m really picturing this. Like you’re a student.
Stephanie: I’m like, sign me up.
Jinsella: I’m recruiting you [laughs].
Stephanie: Yeah.
Jinsella: [Laughs]. So, first of all, I would ask what your interests are. Because we’re really keen at Demilitarise Education to make sure we are accessible, and we are tapping into your interests and your skills.
There’s so many ways to contribute. And we like to categorize them into three or four sections. So, it’s community, research, media, and technology.
And, you know, I would ask where they would place themselves, ideally. And then they could join us on Discord, where we have a weekly meetup at 5PM, English Time, just to drop in for us to chat.
We could kickstart you on a database guide, which is basically like a research worksheet which you just work through. And then you send FOIs and do other research methods which we’ll teach you. And then all that data will be uploaded to the University and Arms Database.
Or, you could help turn some of our database findings into accessible content. Or perhaps you’re more interested in community-building and helping us spread the word and helping us make sure that we have accessible policy and keep creating safe spaces.
So, there’s so many ways to get involved. And I mean, we’re a little bit all over the place. Like we are doing campus visits, which are kickstarting this year. We’re going to be at the Stop the Arms protest in September as well.
But of course, the best way to find us is online. We’re @dED_ucation. And our website is ded1.co. It’s really short and easy. ded1.co. So, find us there. Get in contact. We will place you in a research, media, or community, or technology position that best suits you. And, you know, hope that you can really learn some skills and gain value from our community as you contribute to the transformation of our education for peace.
Stephanie: It sounds great. Like there’s a lot of room for individuality and creativity and community. And it sounds, too, that you’re pretty psyched about it. That can attract people when you’re recruiting, and you’re talking about this, is just your own enthusiasm for it. Which means that you found something in it that’s changed you in some way, right?
That there’s something that gives you – even though it’s a huge topic and maybe even impossible for some to imagine, something in your voice suggests that you have a lot of hope.
Jinsella: Yes. That is a great observation. That is a great observation. 100%. And actually, I’ve come to a point now – you know, when I started this – when I started campaigning to get the arms trade out of education, it was purely that. That made sense to me, right? Like, why is our education system being used to advance the global war machine? That’s wrong. And most people do fundamentally agree with that.
After five years of really crunching my mind around that research, I’ve come to the realization that actually world peace is possible. And the fact that I, five years ago, thought it was naïve to even consider talking about world peace or thinking about it. Because you know, it’s just a utopia, or it’s a naïve idea. And like, “Oh, don’t be silly. This is just the way the world is.” Is what I hear the whole time.
Having looked at the research, the policy, and having spoken – I’m a talk show host. I run a talk show called dED_talks, which explores the global fight for peace by talking to modern-day peacemakers.
And I’ve spoken to hundreds of experts from around – okay – 100+ experts from around the world, about their different elements of peacebuilding.
And now that I’ve pieced all that information together, the reason that we think it is naïve to even suggest that world peace is possible is because that is successful government strategy.
I always say this fact because I think it really encapsulates that in the UK, since 2015, the UK government has spent over 45 million pounds promoting military ethos in schools. This is teaching our children that they should aggressively defend their own interests at the time we desperately need collaboration and to be shifting our economies to be care-based and collaborative rather than competitive.
And when you understand that and also understand the nature of peace, you know, peace is something we all feel. It’s something that we experience. It’s something that lies in nature. It lies in the makeup of the world.
And most spiritual texts all have an anchor in that intuitive hunger for peace. We all have a hunger for peace, whether it is for our own – you know, within our own lives or within the world.
And there is no reason why we shouldn’t believe it. I actually asked ChatGPT this last week, “Is world peace possible?” And ChatGPT said, “Yes, of course.”
Stephanie: Yay. [Laughs]
Jinsella: I know. And then I said, “Okay, how can we achieve world peace?” And it churned out a list of objectives that we would need to do to achieve world peace. It included international dialog, included disarmament, included actually educating people for peace, not war – which is what we’re focusing on.
But all the things that ChatGPT listed were like so much less resource-draining than any war machine that we’re creating. And therefore, until we spend as much money as we’re spending on war on peace, and it still fails, then no one can tell me world peace isn’t possible. It is possible.
Stephanie: Yeah, I agree. When I found nonviolence, people asked me if I believe in nonviolence. And of course, I do. But I really think it can solve every single problem in the world that we’re facing. And it sounds naïve, even to me, to step back and hear myself say that, but I truly believe it because I feel like if we can come to a shared understanding of what it means to be nonviolent, it would be a shared understanding of our interconnectedness, of the interconnectedness of issues that we can’t hurt others without hurting ourselves. Can’t hurt our environment without hurting, you know, life systems.
And there’s ways of moving in those spaces doing minimal harm and that we have – even the fact that it’s on ChatGPT means that it’s out there. That’s a giant database of world knowledge that already exists. And it’s like how can we get this kind of shell off of us, or this cage that we’re in, that tells us that violence is required and necessary to sustain our civilizations?
Jinsella: Absolutely. I think what – You’ve just encapsulated something that’s really hot on my agenda right now. And I’m going to say one thing and then tell you about something else that I’m doing.
So, I think something that I’ve actually got on my ‘make content about next week’ list, but one thing which people, including myself, misinterpret is this idea that war is the opposite to peace.
War is not the opposite to peace. Peace is the default. Peace is a whole. And war is one method of dealing with conflict, and a very violent and a very inefficient one of that.
Now, conflict is what is inevitable, okay? Like all – there’s many ways and many things which create friction which creates conflict. But there are so many methods of dealing with conflicts. And war is just one of them.
Unfortunately, due to the profitability of war and that kind of patriarchal, like, “Oh, my army is bigger than yours” vibe that comes with it, so much power has been given to it. Whereas we know, and we can look to Indigenous communities around the world, all these other methods of learning how to manage our own violence. And therefore, learning how to manage interpersonal conflict.
So, this kind of understanding, along with something which Beyoncé actually touched on her Renaissance Tour, which is anchored in an Einstein quote. And the quote reads, “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”
And this is something which I was delighted to hear Beyoncé platform. Because just a week or two before I saw that, I started a YouTube channel called hellaJinsella, that is dedicated to Willing World Peace.
And what I do every Thursday at 9PM British Time, is I simply hold the space for us to imagine peace together. Imagine world peace. Imagine what that means for our economies and care-based systems.
And we meditate and actually make space for our minds to start prioritizing peace as the universal principle that we can all stand behind.
And when we make space in our minds to imagine it, to manifest it, that helps us to revalue it. And when we have something as a high priority in our mind, we naturally attract and spot opportunities for achieving that objective.
So, the fear-mongering which we have seen our governments across the world pour so much money into, which has led to us saying, “Oh, it’s just the way the world is,” needs to be countered by our radical imagination.
And it’s spaces like Willing World Peace and other amazing spaces that are being held for this kind of imagination which are essential for us to be able to, you know, spread the confidence that I currently have about world peace and its achievability, to the collective, you know, the masses.
Stephanie: You definitely have a visionary spirit in you that goes way beyond just demilitarize activism. And yet –
Jinsella: Yes. I want to live in that world.
Stephanie: And you’re deeply involved in activism too, and not just protest activism, but constructive visioning, research, engaging community. You mentioned meditation. But I am interested in how you help to sustain a commitment to nonviolent action when Demilitarise Education goes to things like an arms trade or something.
Are you engaging in any strategic nonviolent tactics at those events? Like, I don’t know, an example would be encircling a table of a military recruiter and not letting anybody get to them. Are you going to that extent that you’re taking that risk or is – how are you engaging with activism in public?
Jinsella: So, when it comes to nonviolent direct action, I would need to pass the mic to some of our amazing colleagues. For example, Stop the War Campaign, Palestine Action, many other groups. And a lot of our older generation peace activists are the ones who are doing the kind of lock-ons.
So, what happens at the arms fair every year is they will lock onto – like two people might lock onto each other with like a metal bar. And then they’ll lie in the road and that will stop the arms being able to be brought into the ExCeL Center to change it.
However, we found that we fill a different gap within the movement, which is media, accessibility, and research. So, for example, our contribution to the Stop the Arms fair protest is by organizing a teach-in.
And we’re invited academics and students alike to come and talk about the issue of Demilitarise Education, while people are sat peacefully protesting, blocking the roads, stopping the weapons of war coming in to be sold.
But yeah, really, our capacity isn’t put towards, like, direct, direct action right now. It’s more focused on building the database and the resources which can enable others to take an action if they so wish.
Stephanie: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And there’s room for it all. So, it’s important to let people who feel like that’s their role to carry on that role too, and to fill in the gaps where those gaps exist.
I’m surprised by – it’s sort of tongue-in-cheek, it seems, that the organization’s acronym is dead [dED]. Was that on purpose?
Jinsella: Yes. That was absolutely on purpose. But obviously, it’s you know, Demilitarise Education – it makes – it’s a bit long. And like dED is a short one. But it’s dED. It was the whole vibe. It’s dED that I have, you know, been morally forced into founding this organization. It’s dED that our arms companies have been welcomed into education spaces.
You know, in Devon, where I’m from, we have a company that makes nuclear weapons running registration services in schools. Why has a nuclear weapons company been given that job within our education? Why have they been given the power to shape our youngsters’ educational experiences?
So, it’s all pretty dead. And I mean we – the catchphrase that we use is, “We ain’t dead yet.” And this nicely encapsulates our mission. You know, we haven’t demilitarized education yet.
But also, just the kind of vibe that is, you know. We’re all really disheartened. We’re all feeling the burden of the weight of the world and the failure of our economic and political systems.
And we just remind everyone with that, you know, as you say, tongue-in-cheek, “C’mon guys. We ain’t dead yet. Like we still got kick in us, and we still got brains in us to match it. So, let’s go.”
Stephanie: Yeah. That’s funny that your talks are called dED Talks versus like TED Talks, which is pretty –
Jinsella: Yeah. [Laughs]
Stephanie: Very creative. I was also hoping that we could talk a little bit about how your work connects into the sustainable development goals at the United Nations and if you have contact with the United Nations or are you engaging with any public forums with them? Or, how you see the role of the United Nations supporting your efforts?
Jinsella: So, no. We haven’t made those connections. However, with Number 16 of the UN Sustainable Goals being peace, justice, and strong institutions, our work clearly aligns with that global collaborative effort which has been triggered and which has united around the UN Sustainable Goals.
However, yeah, although we’ve had, like, a UN association, like sign our petition, and we’ve had discussions with segments of the United Nations on disarmament. So, we have some link, but no formal links. No.
We’ll have to explore that. However, we also are very aware of how bureaucratic and slow the United Nations are. And therefore, it would be a very long-term collaboration that would only come when we have the capacity to waste our time jumping through their hoops. [Laughs]
Stephanie: Yeah. And it would probably lead to larger questions of whether the UN is a demilitarized organization.
Jinsella: Exactly. Exactly.
Stephanie: Well, it’s been lovely speaking with you today. People want to get involved, how they can get in touch with you. Anything that you want people to know?
Jinsella: Sure. So, yeah. Head over to ded1.co. And contact us via our contact form, email. Or head over to social media. We’re very on social, so you can DM us.
The best thing to do, however, is to join our Discord server because we have a weekly meetup at 5 p.m. English Time, where you can just drop in, say hello, learn a little bit about the mission, learn how you might want to get involved.
So, we have a petition live right now. And, you know, if you do one thing today, I really would appreciate you signing that petition. We are hoping – well, we’re using our petition signatures to help us build influence and show public support for demilitarizing education. So, we’re really trying to rank those numbers up.
Or follow us on socials, you know, and, like, share. Help us spread the word.
My final thing to say would be that education is the architecture of our society. And while we line our walls with weapons, we should not be surprised when bombs are dropping around the world.
We need to build societies based on care, health, and security, not militarism. So, Demilitarise Education is proposing a new architecture which is based on the principles of peace, equality, and justice rather than dominance.
Stephanie: As somebody living in California, how can I help support the work?
Jinsella: Well, it really depends on your capacity. I mean, obviously still find us on socials, check out our database, talk to us. You can still do research with us. You don’t have to send FOI requests from the UK. You can send from anywhere. But you just have to get with our time zone, which is a little bit harder – to get support, that is.
But also, there’s an amazing organization – I think CODEPINK is in California. Well, definitely in the US. Look out for organizations. There are loads and loads of peace organizations, World BEYOND War.
I guess the main thing I would recommend you do is come to Willing World Peace. Just start to manifest and imagine peace.
And when you bring and value that in your own life, the opportunity to work towards and make your contribution to the global fight for peace will come to you, and it will suit you better.
Stephanie: You’re at Nonviolence Radio. That was an interview with Jinsella from Demilitarise Education. And we’ll turn now to a brief Nonviolence Report with Michael Nagler. You’ll be able to find more at MettaCenter.org/nonviolence-report.
Michael: Greetings everyone again. This is Michael Nagler with a brief report of the news, not because there isn’t a lot going on. Don’t make that mistake. And you can hear the whole report at MettaCenter.org.
But just to highlight a few things. We often report about Nonviolent Peaceforce. And they’ve taken a unique job on and done it very well. In a matter of weeks, they had to swing into action to set up psychological counseling in Sudan.
Let me quote from one of the team members. “This shows how remarkable it is to see what nonviolent protection tools can achieve in a short timeframe. That timeframe was 16 days for a complete pivot to a different kind of but equally necessary service.”
Now, our real breaking news I’ve been holding is that we at the Metta Center have launched our School of Nonviolence. This is a two-year immersive mentorship. It’s free of charge. It’s going to be based on our courses, the Roadmap, and other resources of the Metta Center and some of our sister organizations. You can find it SchoolofNonviolence.org.
There’s an interesting article that our friend Miki Kashtan has written. You can find it on Resilience.org among other places. And she calls it, “On the Other Side of Separation: individual and collective steps towards a post-patriarchal way of living.”
And I’d like to add that this was from – this was under the auspices of a group and in a journal that I was unfamiliar with. It’s called, “The Mother Pelican Blog” of the Pelican Web. As I said, there’s a lot going on and even here in the catbird seat of Metta Center, we can’t always keep in touch.
Our friends at Popular Resistance have started something called, “Popular Resistance School.” It’s a curriculum of readings and eight video lectures. And let me quote something from them. Nonviolent social movements are a powerful means for preserving democracy and making society address critical social problems.
And in this connection, our friend Erica Chenoweth at Harvard wrote the following and I’d like to leave you with.
“Sometimes I think,” she said, “movements focus too much on doom and gloom. They spend too much time and energy on reliving what they have endured. And it can heavy. But,” here’s the point, “doom and gloom doesn’t energize a frightened or apathetic audience.”
And this point was also very well made in the book called, “Break Through: From the Death of Environmentalism to the Politics of Possibility” by Michael Shellenberger and Ted Nordhaus. I really do recommend that book.
And finally, for this brief intro, in Mexico, a group of Indigenous women from the Yaqui community got the government to declare a very large pipeline that was going through their lands illegally.
However, the oil company which was supposed to dismantle the pipeline took no action to do it. So, the women swung into action, cut up the pipeline and sold it for scrap metal. Now, that’s the spirit.
We also want to all be keeping our eye on the ongoing protests in Israel. This is the largest social upheaval that the country has ever experienced in its 75 years of existence. And the issue at hand is an attempt by the very right-wing Israeli government of this period under Mr. Netanyahu to reign in the judiciary.
Israel, as you may know, does not have a constitution, so there really is nothing in place to prevent him from doing that except these enormous protests. If you see the news, you watch the videos, it’s really quite remarkable.
So, we really seriously hope that things will come out on the right side in this struggle. And so far, I’m very happy to say that this has been a nonviolent struggle, despite the level of passion that’s involved. People feeling that their democracy is under attack as never before. Something that I think we might be able to relate to.
So, the fact that they are remaining nonviolent under such provocation speaks very well of them and prognosticates very well for a successful outcome.
So, again everyone, thank you very much for listening. This is Michael Nagler with a brief Nonviolence Report. Listen to the rest of the report at MettaCenter.org.
Stephanie: You’ve been at Nonviolence Radio, broadcasting out of our mother station KWMR. With thanks to our guest, to our NV Radio team, Matt Watrous, Annie Hewitt, to Bryan Ferrell at Waging Nonviolence, to our syndicator stations over the Pacifica Network, and to you all of our listeners. Until the next time, please take care of yourself and one another.
Subscribe to “Nonviolence Radio” on Apple Podcasts, Android, Spotify or via RSS.