Above Photo: Palestinians wave their national flag as they ride boats during a rally in support of activists aboard a Pro-Gaza flotilla made up of four boats aimed at defying Israel’s blockade of Gaza, at the seaport of Gaza City on June 28, 2015. NurPhoto via Getty Images.
The 2023 Gaza Freedom Flotilla concluded the first stage of its voyage this past week.
They visited ports in a number of European countries, carried the Palestinian flag, and raised awareness of its mission to end the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza.
The Freedom Flotilla Coalition’s flagship vessel, The Handala, concluded the first stage of the 2023 Gaza Freedom Flotilla voyage this past week when it arrived in Oslo, Norway. According to the Coalition, The Handala has visited 12 ports in a number of European countries over the past two months carrying the Palestinian flag and raising awareness of its mission to end the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza. On board The Handala, TRNN contributor, lawyer, and freelance journalist Dimitri Lascaris speaks about the Flotilla and the global movement for Palestinian liberation with fellow passengers Hege Bae Nyholt, a member of the Norwegian Parliament, representing The Red Party of Norway, and Aram Zaheri, Deputy Leader of the Red Party of Norway (Oslo section).
Transcript
The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.
Dimitri Lascaris: This is Dimitri Lascaris reporting from the Handala, the flagship vessel of the 2023 Gaza Freedom Flotilla. And I’m here today en route to Oslo, Norway with two representatives of the Red Party of Norway. And the first, please introduce yourself, Hege.
Hege Bae Nyholt: My name is Hege Bae Nyholt.
Dimitri Lascaris: And could you tell me what your position is within the Red Party?
Hege Bae Nyholt: Yes, I can. I’m a member of the Parliament. I’m actually the Chair of the Standing Committee of Education.
Dimitri Lascaris: And Adam, could you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Aram Zaheri: My name is Adam Sairi. I am the second leader of the Norwegian Red Party in Oslo.
Dimitri Lascaris: And let’s start with Hege. Could you tell us a little bit about the political orientation of the Red Party in Norway and where it sits on the political spectrum?
Hege Bae Nyholt: I’ll try. Of course, it’s a socialist party, so we don’t agree. Of course, inside we have many different views about the party, but we are a socialist party, a modern socialist party. We are only 16 years old. And it’s just recently, the last two years that we have been more than one in the Parliament. But we are growing all the time. We are becoming stronger, more members, more powers. So we are in the beginning as a party, but we are an old movement in Norway.
Dimitri Lascaris: And how many seats does the Red Party currently have in Norway’s Parliament? And what is the overall size of the Parliament?
Hege Bae Nyholt: We are 169 in the Parliament and we have eight seats.
Dimitri Lascaris: And Adam, could you tell me about the Red Party’s activities in Oslo? Where does it fit in terms of the political power structure of the city?
Aram Zaheri: Well, we have a lot of type of political situations going around Oslo, for example, we’re now fighting for free dental care around Oslo, or at least cheaper for the beginning. Because many people around the world thinks that we have have a lot of things that are free in Norway, for example, free healthcare, a lot of free stuff who goes through the welfare system. But yet we don’t have any free dental care in Norway and it’s very expensive. And when you see the situation around Norway where people can’t buy food or have to skip their meal because they have to pay electricity bill, the bills for dental care is now more expensive. And the longer you go without going to a dentist, it gets even more expensive. This is the type of stuff we are fighting for, more cheaper dental care, et cetera. And also, what do you call non-commercialized-
Hege Bae Nyholt: Welfare.
Aram Zaheri: … non-commercialized welfare as well, which we are struggling with.
Dimitri Lascaris: So let’s talk about the issue that we’re all here to activate about, and that is the Palestinian cause. What is the position of the Red Party with respect to the plight of the Palestinian people and how to deal with that crisis?
Aram Zaheri: Well, in our position here in Norway, we see it as our duty to follow what the Palestinian Civil Society want us to do. And that is, of course, supporting the BDS Movement. So in terms of the Red Party, we fully support the BDS movement, it’s a part of our struggle as well as the Red Party members were also the one who formed the first Palestinian solidarity movement called the Palestine Committee of Norway. So it has always been in our struggle to support Palestinian liberation, support taking our oil pension fund out of Israel, support a sovereign state for Palestine, and yeah.
Dimitri Lascaris: And Hege, what motivated you to come on this particular journey?
Hege Bae Nyholt: On this boat? Well, I’ve been born and raised in the solidarity movement in a way. My parents were active when I was a child, so I always been a part of my political… My heart is beating extra strong for the Palestinian case. I’ve been to Palestine twice, but never to Gaza. It’s not been possible for me. So this was an opportunity to do it. And just before the Parliament closed this year, we suggested a bill that Norway should recognize Palestine as a state. We haven’t. And it is also a way to hopefully get some publicity about our suggestion because it’s difficult to get the media’s attention when we try to suggest things like, I nominate Al-Haq for the Nobel Peace Prize. And it’s difficult to tell the world about it. Al Jazeera wants it, they make a big case out it, but in Norway, it’s difficult to wake up the media and get the attention that we need. So I think things like this flotilla is super important just to make people remember what’s happening in Palestine. Because right now it’s mostly about the war in Ukraine, in Norway, and we don’t talk about what’s happening in the Middle East, what’s happening in Africa, what’s happening other places in the world. So it’s so important that we still have some interest and issues about what’s happening in Palestine, and it’s difficult, so we need these boats.
Dimitri Lascaris: Right. And Adam, Hege mentioned the fact that the Norwegian government has not yet recognized Palestine as a state. Could you tell us more about the government’s policies towards the Palestinian people, towards Israel, and what is the Red Party’s position about the Norwegian government’s policy towards Israel?
Aram Zaheri: Well, it’s a very interesting question you’re asking because for the government, they want to say, we hold a position of standing with the international law and then saying we are supporting Palestine. But in reality, the government is actually funding Israel and funding Israeli settler movement by our oil pension fund that goes to the Israeli banks which holds the settlements, which makes us invest in those settlements, which is totally illegal according to international law, which we are, by the way, breaking in Norway. So we hold a position.
There are also been found that in terms of arms deal we have in Norway, we have one of the, I probably think the world’s biggest arms deal as a nation state. So when we send weapons, because we usually say we send weapons to countries that usually aren’t in war, when we send weapons that end up happening to be sent to countries that are in war, for example, Israel, we found out that Norwegian ammunition and bombs have been used in Gaza. Latest I found was in 2009. And that’s the double standard morality that we hold as a so-called peaceful peace nation that gives Nobel Peace Prizes and stuff to people and try to make up a great morality that Norway holds a good position.
Dimitri Lascaris: And Hege, you mentioned the Ukraine War. My understanding is that the Norwegian government supports policy of sending weapons to the Ukrainian military. That’s right?
Hege Bae Nyholt: Yeah, it is.
Dimitri Lascaris: And in your opinion, is there any rational and moral way to reconcile the Norwegian government’s position with respect to arming Ukraine and its position with respect to the Palestinian people?
Hege Bae Nyholt: Oh, the biggest debate inside the Red Party this year and last year. But of course it’s tough when you’ve been part of the solidarity movement for a long time to see how different the government treats the different wars. Because it’s a war. It is occupation, but also war going on against the Palestinians. So I think it’s important that we… We of course, need to support everybody who’s fighting for their freedom. If there’s a Ukrainian or a Palestinian, they are humans, they need our support. But it’s difficult sometimes to see that it’s much more will, and it’s easier to get the support when it’s happening in Europe. And when it’s not happening in Europe, well, we close our eyes and it’s other issues that is more important for… How US find the conflict define how our government sees the conflict.
Dimitri Lascaris: Yeah. And lastly, I’d like to ask you, Adam, about the Red Party’s position with respect to NATO. Could you tell us what it is and what is the underlying thinking behind that position?
Aram Zaheri: Well, first and foremost, we look at NATO as a so-called superpower, a great power that holds a position of influence in other world countries. It’s not necessarily a defensive force for the Western countries. We have seen that in Libya, we have seen that in Afghanistan and in Iraq and so on. So for us, we don’t want to be a part of NATO. We think NATO as much as Russia and China have their own colonial interests. So that’s how we see it. We wish one day to be independent outside of NATO so we don’t commit more crimes against humanity. As well as I wanted to put this out, and it’s very important, Norway who gives out Nobel Peace Prizes around the world are the same state nation that has bombed Libya probably the most, that has participated actively more than most NATO countries that was participating. And that is very important of our double standards when we think about NATO.
Dimitri Lascaris: Well, thank you very much both of you for speaking with me here today. And it’s been Dimitri Lascaris reporting from the Handala on route to Oslo, Norway.